PODCAST EP. 369: Biology of Nesting Season for Pheasants, Quail, and Prairie Grouse

Transcript for On The Wing Podcast Ep. 369: Biology of Nesting Season for Pheasants, Quail, and Prairie Grouse

Speaker 1 (00:50.398)

Welcome to On the Wing Podcast presented by Purina Pro Plan. For the first time in Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever's history, we're celebrating Hatch Week. It's not about green chilies. No, it's a lot closer related to Pheasants and Quail. Hatch Week. What is Hatch Week? Well, that's the question.

Today's podcast is going to answer, and it covers a variety of levels. We'll start with pheasant biology. We'll talk about pheasants forever membership. We'll talk quail biology. Yes, all six species. We'll talk quail forever membership. And we'll even finish with a little prairie grouse conversation as we wrap up a hatch week.

Joining me, we got a couple of returning guests. One guest that's been on, I don't know, three, four podcasts, same person, new last name, Emy. I don't even know how to pronounce your new last name. Emy Marrier, formerly Marrier. How do you pronounce your new last name?

Speaker 2 (02:08.172)

Now Emy Pangrel.

Speaker 1 (02:09.688)

Tangro, congratulations. Thank you. How how how long have you been living the married life?

Speaker 2 (02:16.246)

Marital bliss. Since January thirty first. I caught on quick.

Speaker 1 (02:20.184)

That gig.

Speaker 3 (02:20.814)

A little bit.

Speaker 1 (02:23.15)

Wha I'm sorry, when was the marriage? Okay, so it's been a little while.

Speaker 2 (02:27.226)

the end of January. Yes, we were bowled with a Minnesota January wedding. Yeah. We got fifteen degrees, no wind. So outdoor pictures were great. yeah. Nailed it.

Speaker 1 (02:42.136)

Do you go snow snowmobile for your honeymoon?

Speaker 2 (02:44.632)

Well we went snowshoeing into the boundary waters. When saw some pictographs Segman Lake recommendation that you had.

Speaker 1 (02:52.083)

I didn't know you'd took me up on that one. What'd you think of the petroglyphs?

Speaker 2 (02:56.302)

Cool to see that close. Yeah. Only ever see from a canoe or a boat. You can just walk right up there. Still do not understand how they're still here, how they even were made. It's one of those if pictographs are just

Speaker 1 (03:01.966)

Ha ha ha.

Speaker 1 (03:09.422)

Cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's very cool.

Speaker 2 (03:11.468)

Makes it feel kinda small.

Speaker 1 (03:13.98)

tell our listeners what you do for the organization.

Speaker 2 (03:16.652)

Yeah, I'm our membership manager. So I get to help remind people why membership is important to the mission that we do. for myself personally, I run bird dogs. I connect to this mission as an upland bird hunter. So I really like the aspect of that hunting is the motivation, habitat's the mission. I'm someone who lives pre slat. Not everyone hunts. Conservationists, aspects, prairie grasslands, you can hit on all of it. Been a nature nerd my whole life and I've always loved dogs, so I just happen to find the outdoor adventure plus bird dogs plus prairie passion is upland bird hunters and here I am Exactly.

Speaker 3 (03:53.644)

It's synergy at its finest. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:56.12)

Flat coated retriever and Yeah. So all the folks out there they're like, why don't you have more Labrador tie? We got we got a lab owner on to

Speaker 2 (03:58.483)

Yes indeed.

Speaker 3 (04:06.646)

You're outnumbered today, Bob. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:08.366)

Yes. Gold retriever on your camp. That's right. We got two nerds now because you're the bird nerd, right? That's her. If Emy categorizes herself as a nature nerd, right? Yes. Then you're the bird nerd. That's Ron Leathers.

Speaker 3 (04:11.182)

Right. The Murphy dog.

Speaker 3 (04:23.798)

I've been framed as the head bird nerd.

Speaker 1 (04:26.99)

Framed? yeah, that's a polite way of putting it, right? You are our chief conservation officer. Tell us a little bit about what you do.

Speaker 3 (04:38.316)

Yeah, I've I've got the role to be responsible for the mission delivery of this organization. So I've got a large team that's distributed throughout the country. There's actually five hundred and forty, I think, folks that are out there working with private landowners or putting seed in the ground or lighting fires. I think a whole lot of them would rather be lighting fires than what they do because I think everybody in our team is a pyromaniac, including me. but all of that work.

In addition to the government affairs work and that team that works in Washington DC and state capitals around the country helping to promote the tools that we need to do our good conservation work and the education mission, helping people adopt this lifestyle that Emy so eloquently detailed. so all of our primary mission pillars, getting those things into the ground or into the minds of young people or into

the priorities of politicians and policy makers is is within my responsibility.

Speaker 1 (05:37.363)

And on the outnumbered front, you are a golden retriever owner.

Speaker 3 (05:42.296)

Proud owner of a of a two year old male golden retriever named Murphy who is a tornado on four legs.

Speaker 1 (05:50.19)

Any signs of calming down?

Speaker 3 (05:55.208)

no, no, I think that's coming much later in life for this little guy. he's he's he's a stud. He's a he's a really good dog. He's got a lot of energy and I'm really glad that I have a sixteen year old son at home that can help mitigate some of that energy because I just don't have it.

Speaker 1 (06:13.07)

all right. So we've got our head biologist, the head bird nerd, chief conservation officer Ron Leathers. We've got Emy Pangrel. Did I pronounce it correctly? Nailed it. Nailed it. All right. membership manager. So hatch week taking place in mid June to celebrate the peak of the pheasant hatch. And we have a special membership promotion.

that Emy is going to talk to us about in a little bit, but we're also going to talk about quail in prairie grouse, which are not quite as structured. That's not quite the right word. You know, when it when we talk about pheasants, it's pretty easy to focus on when the peak of the hatch is going to be. It gets a lot more complex when we start talking out about other birds. And that's what we've got Ron to help uncover for us.

as we talk through. We've done similar podcasts before, but there's even some new information that we're finding that we're gonna talk about today.

Speaker 3 (07:18.158)

Yeah, research is cool. We learn more every single day. I've got a a science team that's a bunch of bird nerds that are out spread around the country at universities, external science council that's helping us daylight a lot of this information. An internal science team that synthesizes it and puts it into our hands so that we can manage from that. and that's doing their best to make me sound intelligent. I really appreciate our science team giving me some cool information that we'll be able to talk about today.

Speaker 1 (07:41.176)

So

Speaker 3 (07:48.0)

Across all of our eleven target species. So we're gonna talk ringnecks today. We're gonna talk to six species of of North American quail today or or US quail today. And then we'll talk about those four prairie grouse species that are in those odd little locations and those funky looking little birds that I think people are starting to figure out. Prairie grouse are a really cool and a lot of fun to chase around. So we'll give a little information on all that. Right.

Speaker 1 (08:12.536)

We have a lot to cover. And so we're going to dive right in. We'll start with Pheasants. Ron's got his laptop up, and that that tells you just how much information we got to download today. before we get rolling, I want to once again thank Parina Pro Plan, the national dog food sponsor of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever's wildlife habitat mission. And as I mentioned at the onset, the presenting sponsor of On the Wing Podcast.

My pups have always eaten Purina ProPlan from Trammel and Izzy to Eske Gitchy in Winter. They've always eaten Purina ProPlan, not just because of Purina support of our organization's Wildlife Habitat Mission, which is incredibly important to me and should be important to you, the listener. But what's most important is that Purina Pro Plan is a team of the world's best scientists and nutritionists.

Behind their dog food. Purina Pro Plan was created for the working bird dog like Murphy, like Lux, and like G little Gitchigumi. You can learn more at Proplansport.com. From Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever national headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota. This is Casey Sill with the Upland Newsroom, delivering top stories from the Habitat Organization and across the American Uplands.

As you already know, if you're listening to this episode, it's Hatch Week. And as we celebrate chicks hitting the ground across the country, let's cover some news that will have a big impact on future hatches. Today we're talking Farm Bill, and more specifically the Conservation Reserve Program, or CRP. As we reported several weeks back, in April, the House passed the Farm, Food, and National Security Act of 2026, advancing the process to complete a bipartisan, five-year farm bill for the first time since 2018. The spotlight now shines on the U.S. Senate.

For 40 years, CRP has restored millions of acres of habitat, improved soil health, and provided forage for livestock, all while serving as a critical safety net for ag producers. Yet while other major conservation programs have received significant investments in recent years, CRP has not had any updates since 2018. As the Senate works on its version of the farm bill, now is the time to change that. That's why Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever recently joined over 50 conservation, sporting, and outdoor recreation organizations.

Speaker 1 (10:38.2)

To send a letter urging the Senate Agricultural Committee to invest in CRP in the next farm bill. The message is clear: CRP works and it deserves our support. This work is made all the more vital when you look at the number of CRP acres we're set to lose over the next two years. In the top eight pheasant-producing states alone, over 1.7 million acres of CRP will expire by the end of 2027, with nearly 600,000 acres expiring in Iowa.

speaker-0 (11:03.405)

lone.

Speaker 1 (11:04.92)

So as we make our way through Hatch Week, let's all take a moment to remember just how vital CRP acres are to pheasant and quail production across the uplands. And if CRP has had a positive impact on you or your community, now's the time to speak up. Go to pheasantsforever.org, find our conservation advocacy page, and hit take action to send a message to your senators and urge them to support meaningful investment in the conservation reserve program. That'll do it this week reporting from PF and QF headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota.

I'm Casey Sill. All right, we're gonna start with ringnecks, pheasant biology. Ron, tell us about the birds and the bee. My mom and dad never told me about the birds and the bees, so so Ron, you're gonna do it for us.

Speaker 3 (11:44.664)

The birds and

Speaker 3 (11:51.822)

I will do my best. Where would you like to start, Bob?

Speaker 1 (11:57.358)

That's a loaded question. Okay, so hens and roosters start getting amorous in April. Yep.

Speaker 3 (12:06.806)

A little bit. Roughly. Yep. In the spring, the s the sun comes out a little bit. you know, they talk about spring being the mating season for everything and roosters are no different. So you're gonna start to hear those boys crowing from the roadsides or from the the high tops on a on a dirt field in April. they'll do that throughout really until the hence stop being receptive.

And they're just they're doing their best to be teenage boys and attract the ladies. they'll they'll start pairing up, well not really pairing up, they'll just start mating. So they're the girls are s are showing up where the boys are. They are, yes, they're polygamous. And I think, you know, some of the some of the stats say that a a rooster can service tent twenty hens, up to twenty hens. So they get around quite a bit. but they attract the ladies in in

April they'll get them bread and then the girls are gonna go off and start doing their work and the guy's gonna turn his attention to the next lady and we

Speaker 1 (13:09.218)

talk about we've talked about this on social media like tax day is a good day to take a look at your habitat and you know that's when nest initiations start up like if you're gonna pick a date on the calendar tax day is a day when hens start looking for nest cover

Speaker 3 (13:25.214)

Yep, they really do. They that's when they're start really looking around to get bread. they're gonna do most of their breeding a little bit later in the year. And so sort of what we talk about is our peak of hatch. And the trouble with my job is I'm gonna talk broadly across forty eight states and then the people in Texas are gonna be mad because I'm talking about their peak of hatch being a different time than the peak of hatch in North Dakota. Which is true. Which is true. It all kind of depends on what the weather's like and what availability of resources are and when the plants are growing.

But yeah, those birds are still really starting to look to to get together in April with the intent of sometime in mid June during our hatch week, ironically, starting to get those those eggs to hatch and and get the chicks out of the eggs. So early April, they're starting to pale up pair up. They'll breed those hens, and then the the hens are looking for undisturbed grass. And so those hens are gonna make a small nest in the in the grasslands, just a

Kind of a scratch out nest bowl and they're gonna start dumping eggs one at a time, one a day, into that nest bowl. And then when she's done putting about ten eggs, somewhere between seven, fifteen, ten's a good number 'cause I like round numbers. she's gonna start sitting down and then she's gonna sit down on those things for about twenty three days, twenty-five days, something like that.

Speaker 1 (14:44.59)

Want to just stop there and just recognize Mother Nature for being so amazing, right? So this hen drops an egg a day into a nest, goes on and lives their life, right? Second egg next day, third egg next day, all the way from hey, I saw a photo of 18 eggs in a nest, which wow, monster, right? But on average, it's 11 or 12, right? But you think about that, a hen.

Speaker 3 (15:07.886)

Right. That's a huge mess.

Speaker 1 (15:13.794)

drops an egg a day and doesn't start sitting on them until let's say it's 12. Yep. When they're done. Then starts sitting on on them and synchrono help me out. Synchronous incubation correct happens on the day of the final egg. Hen sits on them and egg number one, the clock starts ticking the same as egg number 12. That's

Speaker 3 (15:42.606)

Amazing.

Speaker 1 (15:43.702)

That's unbelievable, isn't it? To me it is. It's like it yeah, and that's true of I think that's true of all the upland birds, that they'll start dropping eggs one a day, but the incubation doesn't kick in until a hen starts see and the clock is the same. They're gonna they're gonna all gonna hatch within the same time.

Speaker 2 (15:47.681)

I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (16:05.186)

They all come out at the same day. A lot of them are coming out within the same really tight timeline, a couple hours. The first one's gonna start pipping and it ignites them all to start pi they give a little egg tooth that starts poking their way out of that. That's called pipping. And they'll all pip about the same time. And all those chicks are coming out of that nest. And it's really important that they do because mom's gonna start to see chicks and chicks are gonna start to move around and she's gonna start chasing chicks around. And if she's not sitting on that nest anymore.

Those eggs aren't staying warm. They don't have as likelihood of hatching or something's gonna find that egg while it's in the process of hatching. So they all come off at just about the same time. And then she flips into mama mode and she starts shepherding around her her little brood of chicks and and trying to find them something to eat instantly.

Speaker 1 (16:53.198)

So the incubation time twenty-three days from the point of the final leg in the start of incubation till hatch, twenty-three days. Okay. So it you know, then and this is part of what we focused on in the last time we talked about this, but I want to revisit some of that ground is that twenty three to twenty five days of incubation, that hen is in mother nature with raccoons and you know,

Speaker 3 (17:01.398)

Twenty three to twenty five, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:21.28)

Alfalfa that needs to be harvested and all sorts of the world at the

Speaker 3 (17:26.74)

Snakes, skunks and wait, we like eggs for breakfast and so does everything else out in nature.

Speaker 1 (17:33.518)

So let's let's take example, okay, so third day of laying eggs. So there's three eggs in the nest. The hens, those three eggs get wiped out by a skunk. Skunk comes across and grabs them, they haven't even started incubation. What's the hen gonna do after pr that first initiated nest is predicted?

Speaker 3 (17:57.512)

She's gonna try again. So she's gonna go find a new nest site and she's gonna drop the rest of those

Speaker 1 (18:02.136)

New Nessai probably isn't gonna h drop the same

Speaker 3 (18:05.688)

Probably not. They learn pretty quickly. Now keep in mind most of our upland game birds are a year old. Right? Two years is a really old time for an upland game bird. So this is the first time most of these mamas have ever done this. And it's just biologically ingrained in them. And so a lot of times they're putting their first nest in kind of the first spot that they see that feels good. Not always the best spot, right? So she's gonna put that in there. Something will wipe out that nest. A flood will come through. Yeah something

Speaker 1 (18:34.904)

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:36.898)

So she'll go find a better spot. She can learn. So she's gonna go find a better spot, put the rest of those eggs out and start sitting on them.

Speaker 1 (18:43.918)

Okay. So the rest of those eggs, so say she lost that the third egg and then she starts a new nest. Will she drop w what was gonna be maybe twelve or will it decrease because she's already used some of her resources for those first couple eggs?

Speaker 3 (18:59.384)

Yeah, her her body condition's really important and it is really hard on he hens to make eggs. You think about the size of a hen and you think about the size of an egg, that is a lot of resources that are coming from her body.

Speaker 2 (19:10.593)

Not surprised to hear that.

Speaker 3 (19:12.44)

Imagine it.

Speaker 2 (19:13.994)

Email the room has to say that. I'm sure that takes a lot of effort.

Speaker 3 (19:17.144)

Can only imagine. So she's she's gonna drop what she's in the process of making into a basket somewhere else, and then she's gonna sit down and try to hatch those off. And those obviously then will come out a little bit later as she starts that new process of finding a nest and getting those eggs into.

Speaker 1 (19:33.294)

So let's say she's she is incubating, she's day twenty. She's getting close. She's got nine eggs in this nest now. And Mr. Raccoon comes, thankfully she escapes the raccoon, but the raccoon gets those nine eggs. What does Mama Hen do?

speaker-0 (19:56.257)

Now

Speaker 3 (19:57.332)

She's gonna try again. So she's gonna go try to get a little bit better body condition. Then she's gotta go find another suitor to help breed her again. And then she's gonna go try again. And she will do that several times until she carries off a successful clutch. And you'll see that a lot of times when we get out to hunt in early season, particularly when you're out sharpdale hunting in a place that you have crossover or you've got you're hunting in early season on something, you see these little tiny

chicks and you think, man, that's got it. She's gotta have carried off three or four clutches. Right. We'll talk about that in a minute here. But probably because her first and second nest attempts failed. She had to build back some body conditions. She had to find a new male. She had to try again. And so she got started maybe instead of early May. That nest maybe even got started into July. And so you've got all a lot of uncolored roosters that they're not doing

Speaker 1 (20:33.496)

That's per

Speaker 1 (20:53.538)

Balls is what I call.

Speaker 3 (20:56.162)

They're not ready for for harvest yet at that point.

Speaker 1 (20:59.694)

I think you've come back from hunts like that, like I I saw some birds with egg tooth still out

Speaker 3 (21:04.194)

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (21:07.372)

Yeah, those are hard to make out if they're roosters or hens. They get to grow up.

Speaker 3 (21:12.27)

There's a couple of those that you shoot at and think, Boy, I hope that was a red color I saw on the face, 'cause it sure looked like it.

Speaker 1 (21:18.87)

So okay, so so pretty clear, we've made the example of if a hen loses a nest, loses her eggs, she will be very deliberate, very aggressive about trying to lay down a new nest. one of the downsides to that is because of the resources, her body condition, the number of eggs from

Nest attempt one to nest attempt three are gonna precipitously decline. Correct. So the the average number of twelve is gonna go down to nine or seven. And then by the third time it might be only three to five eggs before they start sitting and trying to st to incubate, just because she doesn't have the resources to drop.

Speaker 3 (22:04.088)

twelve. But she's getting smarter and her nest success goes up every time she tries again. So it is really, really common to lose nests. Really common to lose nests and try again. You've got less eggs, but that nest success is higher because she's picking a better site. She's doing a better job of of covering up from overhead predators or whatever it is that she's finding a site that's more more suitable and more appropriate.

Speaker 1 (22:27.822)

So we're we're we're leading to the spoiler alert here, right? I mean we we've we've talked about this very clearly as much as possible. There is a misconception that pheasants are pulling off multiple nests of chicks. They will re-nest multiple times if they lose their eggs. However, if the moment so she's let's take that hen who's very successful with

Nest number one, 12 eggs started you know in in in May, and here it is, peak of hatch, June 15th, and those 12 eggs are cracking.

So sh the the hatch is happening, but then let's say a weasel comes on and a weasel is a very important predator. I learned this from who's our Iowa State professor, Bill Clark. Yep. Like weasels are one of the highest predators when it comes to chicks. Of chicks. Yeah. So weasel comes along day two of the chick's life. And as you mentioned, the hen has

Converted to Ma mode, but this weasel just absolutely decimates the brood of chicks. What is the hen gonna do if she loses her entire brood? Her clutch, well, it's not it's clutch of eggs, brood of chicks. Right. she's lost her entire brood now.

Speaker 3 (23:55.15)

Right checks.

Speaker 3 (23:58.84)

So it nature is amazing. the hormones in these birds are amazing. She sees that first chick come out of an egg and she's in mama mode at that point. She is no longer a nester, she is a mother. And once she's a mother, she is not gonna try it again. So as soon as she sees that first chick come out of the egg, she's done nesting for the year. And so that chick survival rate is really, really important to what we call our recruitment rate. That's getting birds to adulthood.

Because if she loses those chicks, she's done nesting for the year. We get no more reproduction out of that hen. Renest attempts or not renest, but rebrood attempts, second and third broods, just do not happen with pheasants. Sometimes they'll do it. They'll see on captive birds. That's a whole different scenario than what's happening in the wild. They just don't go at it again.

Speaker 1 (24:52.6)

So you know, Ron was very deliberate about saying in pheasants. So there is a spoiler there that we're gonna get to a little bit in a moment. we're gonna talk about quail. Before we do, I wanna bring in Emy back into the conversation. Hatch Week. And we've talked about the biology of Hatch Week, what's happening with pheasants out on the landscape from you know Kansas to North Dakota, you know, there's there's

Chicks being born, cracking out of the egg. tell us about the

Speaker 2 (25:26.648)

Pippin'. Pippin. Pippin. I learned a word. Yeah. Pippin' out there. Pippin out of the egg.

Speaker 1 (25:28.536)

Hippy.

Speaker 3 (25:34.584)

Pip a name easy.

Speaker 1 (25:36.078)

There's a pimping joke here that I could go with, but I'm not going to. all right. Tell us about membership and hatch week.

Speaker 2 (25:46.092)

Yeah, so this is our first ever hatch week and what we wanna do for pheasants is that across the landscape there's the unique fact that they do have a more consistent and we even put it in our calendar. So everyone who's got a pheasants forever calendar, they can see in June that we've got mid June is peak pheasant hatch. We have it on June twentieth this year. So to celebrate hatch week, we're going from Monday, June fifteenth, all the way through Sunday and really just

Doing this kind of work, calling out what is going on on the landscape. What we're doing is we're leveraging our spring member drive. So you brought up this starts in April around tax day. And it's gonna go all the way to you might see a really young bird when you're actually hunting this fall. And so it's spanning really the whole core of why we even do a spring member drive. And that is the importance of nesting habitat.

Brood habitat. You just kinda hinted too that they still have to survive the brood period because you're not gonna get another nest out of that hen. So there's a whole time frame. But what Hatch Week is honing in on is that for pheasants, we have a really awesome time period where we can celebrate peak pheasant hatch. And that's what we're doing. And so we've got backslash hatch week that you can go and basically take advantage of our spring member drive with this exciting

little aspect that we have a match. We haven't done that on the membership side before. Hatch. Hatch match. Absolutely. And that's the really exciting piece. we're recognizing that it's a unique time to celebrate this and we can do it through membership. It's for all of our levels. We've got forty five all the way up to becoming a life member. Just like we do with our spring drive. We're just really honing in that right now it is peak pheasant hatch.

Speaker 1 (27:16.171)

We have a hatch map.

Speaker 2 (27:40.088)

And it's something to celebrate. It matters for our opportunities this fall. And again, if someone personally coming at membership is hunting some motivation and habitat is the mission, this is when some of that habitat work manage matters the most that we're doing some of that management for spring nesting. And then brood rearing. So hatch week is an opportunity to celebrate, an opportunity to see some messaging that just teaches us more about what's even happening on the landscape for these upland birds.

That's where it gets exciting. Today it'll go into also quail and prairie grouse as well.

Speaker 1 (28:14.604)

Yeah, right. so to to recap, if you go to pheasantsforever dot org, hatch week, yeah, it'll take you to a landing page with different membership levels that include the different premiums, right? From filet knives to reload out boxes.

speaker-0 (28:19.438)

Thanks.

Speaker 2 (28:19.982)

Slash.

Speaker 2 (28:31.342)

Yeah, so Spring Member Drive offers a double flame knife set. Yeah, so it's possible you got a piece in the mail promoting this.

Speaker 1 (28:37.793)

Elbowfully in their oil.

Ron wouldn't need those 'cause he has a hard time catching fish.

Speaker 3 (28:44.302)

Couch. But I can fillet both handed like nobody's business, Bob. Your fish, not my own.

Speaker 1 (28:51.768)

Can use to clean a a bird too. But there's all there's all sorts of different levels, as you mentioned, with different premiums associated, you can check it out. And the the key piece is that we have an anonymous donor, as you mentioned, to match so if you join or even r renew during this, it's

Speaker 3 (28:54.798)

Yes, you can.

Speaker 2 (28:55.534)

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (29:08.088)

Ten thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (29:13.824)

Or upgrade. Or upgrade. Take advantage of some of those additional g gifts that you get if you do Rooster Booster, for example, or a sponsor level.

Speaker 1 (29:22.36)

Yeah, right on. So it's an opportunity to take advantage of a generosity of somebody who believes in our habitat mission to improve nesting cover, brood rearing cover, and the power of membership to add voices to our efforts in every state capital as well as in Washington, DC, to create the tools to put those nesting cover acres and brood rearing acres on the ground. so we invite anybody that who's listening who

maybe as a member to upgrade, but most importantly, if you're a listener, maybe you're a bird hunter, maybe you're a nature nerd that loves the grasslands, please consider jumping on the website and joining.

Speaker 3 (30:05.784)

Take advantage of the hatch match.

Speaker 1 (30:07.768)

Match match. All right. Let's let's turn our attention to quail for a bit. six species of quail. We won't go through the entirety of the life cycle for each of them because that'll it'll get a little redundant. but okay, so we got six species of quail. Hit us with you know, some of the high points of the different the different aspects compared to

The in depth pheasant conversation we just went.

Speaker 3 (30:40.064)

Yeah, let's let's kind of compare the different quail species for just a second here from some biological perspectives. So Bob White are kind of the flagship quail species throughout the

Speaker 1 (30:51.702)

Yeah. Broadest range, most state like twenty five states.

Speaker 3 (30:54.616)

By far. some people like to say the king of Upland Game Birds. I can't say that because half of my team will yell at me. So I'm gonna say Bob White are probably the the broadest well most well recognized. We could do that. Yeah. We could do that.

Speaker 1 (31:07.094)

You could say the king of the south. Pheasants can be king of the north. This is like an HBO special.

Speaker 3 (31:13.538)

We gotta extend things. So let's compare Bob Whites to all those Western quail species that are just a little bit different from the Bob White. The one thing that that jumps out at you really quickly is that for the most part, all of those Western quail species are pair bonded. So a male, a female working together, breeding, nesting, caring for chicks largely.

Bob Whites get around a little bit more than some of those other

Speaker 1 (31:47.522)

That's it pheasants are not at all parables.

Speaker 3 (31:50.626)

They are not pair bonded. Therefore, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (31:53.346)

The five quail species minus bob whites are are primarily pair bonded. Bob whites. Okay, you're gonna go to bob whites? Not so much.

Speaker 3 (31:59.278)

Correct.

Speaker 3 (32:03.126)

I know. They like to get around quite a bit. and the ladies in particular like to get around. So pheasant roosters like to get around a lot. Quail hens like to get around a lot. and so

Once similar concept, right? The males are out calling, trying to attract the ladies, find a lady. She will get bread and then she'll go off and lay a nest. And in a lot of cases, she'll get that boy to sit on the nest and then she's out to search for a new suitor. there's a couple different ways that this can go down, right? There's similar concept. We're putting a dozen to sixteen eggs out in a nest. And so sometimes you'll see she'll get bred.

She'll lay a nest. She'll say, okay, dude, you go sit on that thing. I'm gonna go try again. She'll get rebred and lay another nest. Sometimes they'll split nest. So if she's got a particular big clutch, she will say, Okay, I'm gonna lay half the nest here. Boy, you go sit on that one. I'm gonna go lay the rest of the nest and sit on it myself. Hmm. And so quail, unlike pheasants, you do see those double.

nesting attempts or or re double double clutching. Yep. And they'll do it three times even. They can carry off three broods. There's a there's one study that we read that she had four broods in one year. Wow. So that's sort of more recent science that we're starting to see come out. It's really hard to track an individual hen and identify how many times she's she's nesting and carrying off a brood. Sure. But keep in mind that this is largely a more southern species.

Speaker 1 (33:17.912)

What?

Speaker 3 (33:45.346)

You've got a much more favorable longer planting season, if you will, that she's able to to carry off broods. And so she's willing to try it again.

Speaker 1 (33:56.278)

Yeah, the longer see like there's research from basically April to August, right? For boboy quail nesting season to reproduction. It's just a multi multiple month longer than pheasant.

Speaker 3 (34:10.176)

And it's not, you know, pheasants really hatch week is a is a important week for pheasants because the the majority of the hatch is going to happen over that and then it will tail off as they renest throughout the year. Right. That's right. And so they're they're hatching throughout the entire year, through the entire summer rather, the entire season. much more distributed than than for pheasants.

Speaker 1 (34:26.807)

Hatch quarter.

Speaker 1 (34:38.552)

So, you know, we talked at great length about how the pheasant hens resources deteriorate and limit their ability to lay big clutches with each subsequent nesting attack. With boboys, in some research they're laying three full nests of eggs. Correct. Is it

simply because like they don't they aren't living through harsh winters or is is harsh weather conditions in the south that bobwites are able to bolster their resources in a much more rapid fashion to lay down multiple eggs or why is

Speaker 3 (35:19.57)

You know, that's my guess. I don't really have a good scientific answer behind that, so we're gonna we're gonna create a scientific wild guess here. Now my my hypothesis is that, and I'd have to ask somebody that's got a better background in Bob White Quail, but that's the assumption is they've got more availability of food resources. They're coming into breeding season in better condition, and therefore have the ability to lay more eggs and carry off more clutches. Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:26.978)

Possess.

Speaker 1 (35:48.546)

Wow. Go ahead, Emy.

Speaker 3 (35:49.784)

So

Speaker 2 (35:52.194)

How do they seem more at risk than pheasants? They have this superpower.

Speaker 3 (35:55.489)

Isn't that amazing?

Speaker 1 (35:58.622)

I was you go ahead.

Speaker 3 (35:59.82)

I asked Dr. Quail the exact same question this morning. I said, How are this how is this population declining if these things have that much ability to reproduce or they're that highly fecund? Fecundity. Fecundity is a species' ability to reproduce and rapidly expand the population. And upland game birds are all or mostly very highly fecundity. Monazuma quail don't have that level of fecundity or but

Speaker 1 (36:10.294)

You can roll out the F word. Save for cutting.

Speaker 1 (36:28.332)

Interesting.

Speaker 3 (36:30.038)

Most of our upland game birds are very, very prolific. And if you plant it, they will come. And it just points to the limitations of habitat. It's what we've been talking about for the last 40 years. If you have the habitat, you're gonna have the birds. If you don't have the habitat, it doesn't matter how efficient and effective the birds are at nesting and bonding and brood rearing. If it's not there for them to create a nest and they can't get in the body condition to carry off a clutch.

They're just not gonna do it. And that just points to how how much work there is to be done, particularly in the Bob White range, to create habitat, maintain habitat.

speaker-0 (37:10.977)

value.

Speaker 1 (37:12.034)

Right. R isn't that's another biological

Speaker 3 (37:14.952)

R selected and K-selected species. Now you're getting too deep into my nerves. It's all about how much investment you make in that young. So are you are you the type of species that puts a whole lot of of offspring and they come out pretty able and capable to do things on their own? Survive. Right? Are you are you an upland game bird? Or are you an elephant that puts out one young

cares for that for a number of years before it's capable on its own of of survival. And so those are the two broad dis strategies.

Speaker 1 (37:51.958)

It it it tends to be the smaller the species, right, the more our value to survive because they're nature's chicken nuggets. Yes. Everything wants to eat a bunny, everything wants to eat a baby quail, whereas a bear cub

Speaker 3 (38:08.43)

Correct. Good luck eating the bear cub.

Speaker 1 (38:11.714)

Right. And Mamma Bear ain't gonna let Yeast bear come, right? That's right. So they have a lower R value, but they're K what what K selected. Okay. Didn't know we were going full on burdener.

Speaker 3 (38:19.681)

It's K select.

Speaker 3 (38:23.512)

We are we're deep into it today. Right. So so let's compare that back then to

Speaker 2 (38:30.494)

I would say though, so you're also saying that they won't even nest if they don't have the habitat. So no matter what their ability is and their R value or aspect, if there isn't the habitat, you don't get a growing population.

Speaker 3 (38:46.326)

If you have to literally scratch out a living and you're barely getting by on your body condition, if you don't have availability of invertebrates, if you don't have a good natural seed source, if you're getting plucked off by a hawk that's flying overhead because you don't have ver visual cover from above, you're not gonna have the ability to even try to nest. So great point.

Speaker 2 (39:09.9)

That's the nerd fact of what our mission is. Just the people of why we even created Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever. Comes down to that specific reality.

Speaker 3 (39:20.14)

Nesting cover is the limiting factor for bird populations throughout the country. You get the nesting cover right, you can do a lot of different things, but if you don't have the nesting cover to pr to begin with, forget about increasing your populations.

Speaker 2 (39:37.623)

Arouse my case.

Speaker 3 (39:38.967)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:39.554)

Was that the mic drop moment? It is thus hatch week. you talked about the western species a little bit different. Yep. Right? They're pair bonded. So talk us through any you also mentioned that Montezuma, urban quail, same species, different bird in different state, different name in different state.

Speaker 3 (39:41.855)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:44.335)

The Satch Week.

Speaker 3 (40:04.387)

Correct.

Speaker 1 (40:06.434)

doesn't have as much of a a fecundity. So so let's start there. Why not?

Speaker 3 (40:10.102)

Right, not highly fecund.

Because they are literally scratching out a living. So availability of nest opportunities for that species is just not as prevalent. I read a study this morning. The researchers, I believe it was 160 miles they hiked to find six nests. They just don't have the places. You know, you you think about pheasants. They a pheasant is typically living within the quarter section where it was born.

Speaker 1 (40:40.888)

Yeah, or I mean they'll nest in a roadside ditch, they'll nest underneath a wind

Speaker 1 (40:52.568)

They're kind of the white tailed deer of the upland bird world, right? Super adaptable.

Speaker 3 (40:56.962)

Pretty much. Edge species. They're great, but you get into these really tightly confined places where Myrn Squail or Monazuma quail, depending on if you're in Arizona or not. There's just not as much available. There's not a lot of grass cover for They've got to find the right site. they might not even come into the body condition. If you don't get the rain, that that hen's not going to get a chance to develop eggs because they're not going to have the tubers and the things that she needs and then the

There go. Well done.

Speaker 1 (41:28.194)

The tuber that Murns or Monazer. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:30.626)

Bird in training over here. Yeah. So they if they can't get there, they're not even gonna gonna nest. And so they just don't have the ability to as rapidly expand. They do relative to the size of the range and the populations of those birds, but they're not like they're not like Bob Whites that just are they have found so many strategies to rapidly increase their populations when the habitat's available to them.

Speaker 1 (41:56.526)

Let's talk desert species. So I'd categorize scales, gamble, and to a large extent California valley quail and into that.

Speaker 3 (42:06.476)

They so that that that pair bonding is really what controls their ability to as rapidly expand and they can get after it. They can they can put a lot of chicks on the ground as well. But when you're pair bonded, that's different than being a bob white. When she's gonna go run around and have three different suitors in a year, she's gonna put a lot more chicks on the ground. Mm-hmm. They're pair bonded. They're gonna try it one time and then they're done. They both go into parent mode.

Speaker 1 (42:33.76)

Okay. True if a predator gets their nest, will they try to renest or they the minute the eggs hatch, will they be in Mammo? They'll

Speaker 3 (42:43.478)

Renest, but again, once the eggs hatch.

Speaker 1 (42:46.264)

So similar premise to pheasants, but paired with a singular male female. Correct. So it's actually a little bit more challenging to have a population explosion for these desert quail versus pheasants.

Speaker 3 (43:01.656)

That family unit is intact and it takes both of them in the proper condition to get it started in the first place. Wow. They both go into parent mode as soon as they as soon as the the eggs hatch. And so yeah, they they're not gonna get out there and get two or three broods off in a year. Huh. They'll try to renest, but they're not as successful in renesting again because of the conditions. So you're living in the desert. It's a little harder to scratch out a living and get back in body condition.

Speaker 1 (43:29.72)

Which is why rain to you know green things up to create nesting cover matters so much for the three desert quail species.

Speaker 3 (43:36.386)

Super important. And which is why those populations have been depressed for for several years. That that area of the southwest, that New Mexico, Arizona. Arizona, southern Colorado area has been very, very dry, and those populations just haven't had the opportunity to rebound. That doesn't mean we can't do habitat work for them. We can plant the species and and restore the native grass species that are adapted to that environment. But

At the end of the day you still have to get a little bit of moisture. Those plant species need to have a little bit of moisture to grow.

Speaker 1 (44:11.862)

And I've categorized California Valley quail with gambles and scales understanding that high desert versus kind of the Sonoran Desert or the you know, the sage steppe where California quails and I mean there's they're different, but the biology of these three birds are relatively similar.

Speaker 3 (44:34.722)

Yep. All the way from Idaho down to California, you've got California or Valley Quail. You've got the the the gambles and the scalies really live in that southern area.

Speaker 1 (44:45.698)

What we think of as cactus driven. Correct.

Speaker 3 (44:47.66)

Right. The desert desert southwest and the and the grasslands of of New Mexico are not necessarily the cactus area. Yeah. That's that's the cat claw area and the places that we hate to take our dogs.

Speaker 1 (44:59.542)

Yeah. So we've talked those three desert oriented quail. We've talked about my Montezuma that live in the sky island, a little more grass, live oak or living oak, living oak. and then bob whites. So the quail we haven't talked about is somewhat the anomaly in terms of the habitat. Right. mountain quail. What what about the biology? What do they most resemble?

Speaker 3 (45:24.554)

You know, they're about the same actually. They pair bond. the males will help incubate. they actually g have a a broader window of of nesting and breeding. So they're getting started a little bit earlier. Again, the the conditions where they live, which is on the west coast, tend to be more available earlier in the year. And so they're they're coming off their peak hatches really May to July or the breeding season's May to July.

They're very similar in all the other ways though. They're they're having one. They'll sometimes have two broods that's a bigger bird. They're more capable of some things. but you know, very similar other than that. They're their nesting is a little bit different. They're nesting at the base of a shrub instead of in a in a shallow bowl. but yeah, very, very similar biologically to the other four western quail species. the one cool thing that I did miss on the on the Montezuma quail that I just was looking at pictures of this morning.

They form a nest that looks like a flask, like a like a lab flask. So it's got some overhead cover. It's it's not just a depression bowl. It's got some overhead cover and it's got kind of a narrow opening that gets into a more broad flasked space with the overhead cover on it. So they're they're kind of a cool little unique thing there.

Speaker 1 (46:46.124)

me if I'm wrong, but I I s thought I read something about bob whites also where they can find nest sites with overhead like a little little tent canopy for their nest. That's preferred

Speaker 3 (46:58.349)

Dale hood, yep, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (47:00.376)

Huh.

Speaker 3 (47:02.744)

Which i again just goes back to obstructing that nest, trying to hide from those overhead predators, getting you know, and and also not quite as hot if you got a little bit of overhead cover. I have

Speaker 1 (47:17.11)

I think I I've seen even photos of some quail species that'll nest like underneath the bottom of our cactus. Like, you know, dig out a little dugout. Yep. And sort of the cactus root, or the base of the cactus is the roof. And they're underneath the cactus because it provides little shade, concealment, and you know, they can look at predators coming from one direction. Yep.

Speaker 3 (47:43.702)

Assuming Desert Quail will actually nest in pack rat mountains. Really? Of all things. Huh. So yeah, they're they're pretty adaptable.

Speaker 1 (47:51.023)

before we move on from quail, roughly how many days, how many eggs are these species?

Speaker 3 (47:58.754)

You know, most of them are pretty similar. So average of twenty-three is a number that we use across most of those upland game birds. it varies twenty-three to twenty-five. I think the desert quail have can come off a little bit earlier, but like a day or two. The mountain quail, I think, take another day or two. but it's all right in that, you know, a ten to a dozen eggs is pretty typical. Twenty one at the at the most narrow to twenty-five days.

Speaker 1 (48:25.72)

I wanna hunt where that those eggs are catching. Twenty one eggs. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (48:29.9)

No, twenty one to twenty five days. I I also want to hunt where they can lay out twenty five eggs. That that is a that thing a lot of work on a hen right there.

Speaker 1 (48:36.226)

Yeah, I misinterpreted

Speaker 1 (48:41.956)

all right, let's transition quail forever membership, Emy. tell us what's going on. If somebody's listening, they like, you know, it's time that I made a commitment back to quail habitat. No matter what species the quail pulls at your heartstrings, tell us what's going on for quail.

Speaker 2 (49:01.922)

Yep, we've got our spring member drive. So it's that same double fillet knife set. This time we're just putting it into quill habitat.

Speaker 1 (49:09.656)

So if you you want to become a member, those premiums will have the Quail Forever logo. You've got it. it's tax deductible donation, as well as when you become a member of Quail Forever, you'll get five issues of the publication spring, summer, fall, winter, and that upland super issue, which is gonna mail the first week of August. So if you're listening to this, you have time.

But you gotta do it right now because if you sign up now, now not only will you get the premium that's on pheasants forever.org. I'm sorry, whaleforever.org slash join, right? Spring. Spring. Yep. Whaleforever.org slash spring. You'll get the premium. But if you do it now, you'll be able to get signed up to get the super issue, which we put the finishing touches.

Speaker 2 (50:00.91)

That one's very fun 'cause that taps into all the different lead with twelve twelve upland game bird species we're covering today. So that magazine covers all. Not twelve, eleven.

Speaker 3 (50:11.406)

Eleven. Eleven I wasn't gonna correct you.

Speaker 2 (50:13.838)

I like the sound of a dozen as well. But one pheasant, six quail, four prairie grouse. Right. And we cover all those on the upland super issue.

Speaker 1 (50:22.68)

Right up. Quail forever dot org slash speaking of the rest of those species. So we've covered seven of so far. There we go. Covered pheasants and we've covered six quail. So the next four are what, Ron?

Speaker 2 (50:24.824)

So spring. Okay.

Speaker 3 (50:39.414)

You you see the big smile on my face. This is my favorite part of the of the bird nerd piece of it. I think I've covered my Wyoming bona fides in the past here. but we've got four primary grouse species that we care about. they're the the prairie grouse we call that picks up sage grouse, which are obviously in the in the sagebrush sea that we count as a prairie type ecosystem. We've got gate greater sage grouse, sharp tailed grouse, greater prairie chickens, and lesser prairie chickens.

Portfolio. Similar biology on those birds, but they do the one really cool thing that's lekking. And if people don't know what grouse lecks are all about, this is Upland Bird Royal Rumble. It's it's a fairly incredible thing to watch. So the birds are picking a high spot with low vegetation.

and they're taking advantage of some of their their unique biology with some guler sacs. Those are the air sacs that can Guler? Ghouler. I'm here to educate. So they're they can inflate these sacs on their necks, these air sacs that make them look bigger. They're colorful. they vocalize with some really, really cool sounds. And no, I will not try to imitate any vocalization of a

Speaker 1 (51:43.091)

That's a word I've never sacks, okay.

Speaker 3 (52:04.206)

But some people on my team will we'll get them on another time. but all the boys are in the same spot. They're dancing, they're strutting, they're vocalizing, and they're doing their best to tell every lady out there that I am the one you want to come hang out with today.

Speaker 1 (52:22.924)

And that's the leck. That's the band. It's a it's like a natural like concert stage, right? If you kind of can soft focus, you can see these sort of platforms in the grasslands that make for an observation area for the males to dance. And you mentioned the vocalization. The the sounds that come out of each of these species are very unique.

Speaker 3 (52:30.638)

Very much.

Speaker 3 (52:51.811)

Very much so.

Speaker 1 (52:52.69)

And they're almost alien. Like I think about the Sage Grouse. That one's very alien. Right? I mean it's like on a Saturday morning cartoon.

Speaker 3 (53:02.964)

Well, that whole bird is very alien when you look at these purple sacks and he's got a big broad spread tail that's got the big pinpointed feathers. I mean, it is just such a unique bird with his his feathers above his head and I mean it's just a such a strange bird. but very, very cool to watch these things dance and and they fight. I mean they get after it with claws and talons and and they're doing their best to to show off for the girls.

Speaker 1 (53:31.72)

And prairie chickens boom, which it's it's not dissimilar from the sage grouse, but different sound and yeah, it's to say in s sharp tails which are super closely related to prairie chickens, but they sound right. They're very mechanical, sorta.

Speaker 3 (53:40.526)

Distinct though.

Speaker 3 (53:48.43)

Completely different.

Speaker 3 (53:56.714)

Shuffling their feet. It's just it's very cool to watch.

Speaker 1 (53:59.65)

Yeah it is.

Speaker 2 (54:00.346)

Are they the only ones that move their feet?

Speaker 3 (54:02.828)

I mean they all do a little bit, but they dance. That is a serious dance. It's it's kind of like watching woodcock strut. I mean those are my kind of my favorite things to watch. sharp tailed grouse get to dancing and they're flapping and they they're inflating and they're making the weirdest noises. And then if you've ever seen a woodcock strut, they kind of have this like head forward and up thing and they're taking one step at a time. It's again, nature's just really, really cool.

Speaker 1 (54:30.338)

You know, take woodcock aside and you think about okay, the grouse species, and you throw our friends from Rough Grouse into that mix and they're drumming on a log, which isn't when you think about it, it's very comparable. Sure. It's not a it's not a lack, it's a drumming log, and they're kind of, you know, that chainsaw rapid fire of their wings. And then the spruce grouse, very similar display, I think it it's in a tree that they're displaying during the spring.

and then okay, not too dissimilar from a turkey, you know, strutting and gobbling during mating season and you know, roosters are crowing. It's not the exact same. There's not always a dance, but it's like puff of the

Speaker 3 (55:16.014)

And then they'll fight. I mean you've s there's a lot of pictures of roosters that are just out there attacking each other to to show off.

Speaker 1 (55:24.706)

What about quail? Like I can't recall quail fighting and dancing during mails.

Speaker 3 (55:30.584)

They're vocalizing. They're not they're not.

Speaker 1 (55:32.878)

They're just whistling. I don't know. They're more gentlemanly.

Speaker 3 (55:35.406)

The gentlemanly bird. That's right. I don't know if I've ever seen a picture of two quail fighting, but I'm sure we'll get some listener calling in and sending us some.

Speaker 1 (55:43.458)

Send me the photo of the quail fighting Bob S at pheasantsforever.org. I want to see it. all right. So our our grouse species are dancing, then what?

Speaker 3 (55:49.399)

I love it.

Speaker 3 (55:56.583)

hens visit the the loudest, meanest looking dude on the block. and and get So I'm out.

Speaker 1 (56:03.706)

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:05.388)

You're pretty loud, Bob. I think it might be okay.

Speaker 1 (56:06.978)

You might

Speaker 2 (56:09.654)

He he lacks the mean though. That's right.

Speaker 3 (56:11.112)

that's right. and then they'll fly off and they typically go a little bit further away to nest. they fly off and they nest and they are completely on their own. So dad does no care for those species. it's all mom. the same concepts, you know, a a a ten eggs maybe, sage grouse are are are a little more selected. They've got a fewer number of eggs typically. They'll get down to four to a eleven, they can get ten, but gotta be in a little better body condition.

Similar a a more distributed nesting season or or or yeah, I guess nesting season, if you will. but they're coming off, you know, similar times. These are all related species. So you talk in June is when things tend to happen. But sage grouse get after it a little bit earlier. twenty three days, most of these species still. Sage grouse are a little bit longer because they're a little bit bigger bird. Yeah. have to spend a little bit more time in the egg getting ready.

And and very similar concepts on re nesting and and rebrooding. It's certainly not happening.

Speaker 1 (57:14.688)

Okay, so so they lose a clutch of eggs, they're gonna try again. Correct. they lose their clutch or their their brood of chicks, it's over, much like what we talked about with pheasants.

Speaker 3 (57:27.948)

different part about that is that they're they're only lecking during a very narrow season for breeding. So they don't they don't re nest as much because they're not doing that. Correct. Correct. So the boys have packed it up and gone home for the season largely.

Speaker 1 (57:42.414)

Really? So they they lose so that makes it much tougher. Right. They they lose, like say their second clutch of eggs in the dance hall is shut down. It's all done.

Speaker 3 (57:56.022)

Yeah, they'll bump a boy every now and then and try again, but it is not that came out correctly, I think. But they'll they'll run into a gentleman at the bar and try again. But yeah, largely it's that first nest is really, really important to the prairie grouse species.

Speaker 2 (58:13.622)

If the dance hall is the limiting factor there, are these birds as young? Like you mentioned, pheasant hens are typically a year, so when they're figuring out their nesting attempts, they're not always successful off the get go. But you don't have a lek that you have to go find. So is prairie grouse as young, then how would they even know where the lek is?

Speaker 3 (58:33.39)

You know, that's a really good question. I don't know the age distribution on the prairie grouse, but what again, nature nature's amazing. These leks are in the same place for centuries. And that is a very limiting factor for these birds. And so when we do when some development function happens, whatever it is we're running a pipeline or a water development function or anything happens to that lek.

It can shut down a population because they don't typically go to a secondary lek or they can, but that primary leck is the place where all the action happens for centuries.

Speaker 1 (59:11.294)

centuries. And it's ingrained right into their genes to know to look there. There comes the reproduction.

Speaker 3 (59:20.536)

There are populations of these things that live in some very developed places. There's a sage grouse lek, I believe, that's on the runway at the Saratoga Wyoming Airport that stops traffic at the airport during the leking season because they they just physically cannot move a lek. And so that's one of the limiting factors that we spend a lot of time talking to people about is okay, you you need to run a pipeline. We get that, but can we run the pipeline around the lek? you need to do

a a fence line, can we run the fence line around the lek? and and the lek actually controls a lot more than just the ability to breed, but a lot of these birds don't fly real high and they're not very smart sometimes. Some of these and and so as the hens fly into these leks to meet with the boys, they're flying low and they'll get hung up on a wire on their way in there. And then we've lost the reproduction from the entire hen. And so we're putting clips on the top of

fences around leks so that the hens can see them as they're coming in and then they don't behead themselves off on on the fence line that's around the lek. So there's a lot of little habitat tweaks that you can do beyond just creating the nesting cover to improve our nest success, particularly on these western quill spe or western grouse species.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35.89)

Yeah. Astute question though, right? Because that's a unique element of conservation when it comes to the prairie grass species is lek protection, which isn't even a thing when we're talking about pheasants and quails.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50.048)

I do know that sage grouse get very old. They get very old. And then they get tougher as they get older, which oof, it's there, they're hard to eat. Aliens. They but they do get very old. And I would suspect that many of the other prairie grouse also can get older. And that's probably part of the reason that they're passing on that leking site. But you can you can pick a topo map and pretty well predict where a lek is gonna be. It's a high point.

Without a whole lot of tall vegetation because they really want to be seen and hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22.552)

Dancehall. Down tall.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25.396)

the the other thing you were talking about, Sage Grouse kind of unique amongst some of these other the other thing that I remember we did a podcast a while back with Tim Griffiths on Sage Grouse, right? And I the the migration element, it's certainly not nesting related, but you know, it's an upland bird that actually has a little bit of migr migration to it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50.486)

It does. I so you know, we we live in the upper Midwest and we think about weather as terrible here in in some portions of the wintertime, right? These birds are living at the base of mountains and so the definition of terrible changes completely. If you're dependent on sagebrush, you have to be able to access sagebrush.

And if you're at the base on the downslope of a mountain or on the upslope of a mountain rather, where you're gonna get a whole lot of snow that has to accumulate so those clouds can get over the top of the mountain, the snow loads can completely overtake a sagebrush flat. And so these things have to move to lower elevations. They have to move annually to different places to take advantage of their food resources and to stay alive.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34.326)

I didn't know that. Nuggets being dropped. All right. So we round towards a close. Emy, give us the websites again for folks that want to become a Pheasants Forever member. Take advan advantage of Hatch Week or join Coil Forever.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52.248)

So Pheasants Forever has our ten thousand dollar hatch match through june twentieth. That's gonna be at pheasantsforever dot org slash hatch. And Quail Forever is taken advantage of our spring member drive at Quail Forever dot org slash spring.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09.878)

Ron, any closing thoughts as we head into hatch week and reproduction season?

Speaker 3 (01:03:16.386)

Well, I'm having a hard time getting hatch green chili out of my brain right now. Yeah. It sounds like a good place to go ahead and spend some lunch time. green chili. Green chili cheeseburger. I just completely lost my train of thought here. Thanks, Pop. No, I you know, I I this hatch week is a really important piece for all of our primary species. And we we have talked about how distributed these nesting seasons are, but you do get a bump in June for every one of our primary eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24.11)

Cheese?

Speaker 3 (01:03:46.152)

Upland game bird species. And so coming into the season, when we're doing habitat work, we've got to make sure that we've got something that greens up very early, that produces a lot of bugs. The bugs help the hens make the eggs, the bugs help the chicks to survive. And that is all really important to recruitment. And recruitment is the number of birds that we are able to shoot the following year. And so if you're honor, it's really, really important to you to think about the spring season.

And you're probably not intuitively ingrained to be there because you're thinking about these birds on the edges of cattails when you're walking in November, or you're thinking about them in some other type of habitat. But those grassland nesting sites are the reasons that you're gonna have birds to shoot at in the fall. Take some time, go out into that field, plant some grass, plant some forbs, do something to improve nesting cover, and you're gonna have more birds in the

Speaker 1 (01:04:41.814)

Yeah, right on. All right, folks. as always, thank you very much for listening. you know, I do want to remind you, I d I don't plead for either buy X, Y, or Z or become a member on every single podcast. but but this podcast is not littered with commercials from start to finish. you know, we exist to perpetuate our mission of wildlife habitat conservation for pheasants, for

quail for prairie grouse for the uplands and that includes you you being able to participate to have access to the uplands so please consider taking advantage of this unique membership offer you can stretch your dollars through this hatch match by going to pheasantsforever.org slash hatchweek right or hatch sorry

Speaker 2 (01:05:38.658)

Slash.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40.75)

Pheasantsforever.org slash hatch or quailforever.org slash spring. Please consider it. It'll make a difference. I'm Bob St.Pierre, thanking you for following along. And as always, follow that dog. Something good will rise. Thanks for listening.