PODCAST EP. 368: The Role of Bird Dogs in the Future of Hunting and Conservation

Transcript for On The Wing Podcast Ep. 368: The Role of Bird Dogs in the Future of Hunting and Conservation

Speaker 1 (00:50.324)

Welcome to On the Wing podcast presented by Purina Pro Plan. It's spring, although it feels like full on summer right now. It's 93 degrees outside on a Wednesday night. And if you're a hardcore listener, excuse me, hardcore listener to the podcast, you know that Wednesday, I spend my Wednesday nights with John Zeman for his Bird Dog Club. Do we have an official name for this?

Speaker 2 (01:21.88)

So on whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 1 (01:24.146)

John Zieman's Bird Dog Club for Novices. It's a little too steamy to be running dogs tonight. So we're gonna talk and talk dogs instead. We're gonna talk a little dog training. I've got two topics on my mind. We're gonna talk to to John about the his philosophy on the role bird dogs play as we look towards the future of hunting and of conservation. And this is a bittersweet moment. I'm dropping off my young pup to live with John. My young pup Winter is gonna live with John for a little while as John helps me realize Winter's full potential as a bird dog. Meredith is at home in tears. No she's not but this is leaving our baby with the babysitter for a little while. So we're gonna catch up with John and we're gonna talk philosophy and here we go. And big news for you is you're retired now as what like a month in?

Speaker 2 (02:41.998)

It's been close to two months. Two months. Yeah. But yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:45.146)

Month there's roofing crew on your house right now. You gotta go into the office tomorrow. You're sort of retired.

Speaker 2 (02:55.714)

I'm busier than I have ever been. I really done with all sorts it's just it seems like I realized that I can do whatever I want and now I'm going in multiple directions. I'm got just fun projects. It's you know, around home or or you know, I spend a lot of my time helping do improvements and maintenance projects and grounds that we train on and that sort of thing. It's stuff that I love doing.

Speaker 1 (03:29.838)

For listeners, if they go back in early days of On the Wing podcast, I think it was like episode number four. You and I in Montana. so you got horses, we slept in the horse trailer. yeah. You've since up upgraded your horse trailer. But we've been friends for a while. you you you've you've been on the podcast, I don't know, three, four times. You and your brothers own Zeman Construction and you're in the process of sort of passing the baton to your children.

Speaker 2 (04:05.816)

Yeah. Got three boys that three of my sons that are still working for the company, so.

Speaker 1 (04:12.866)

I looked up Zeman Construction today on your website and your photo is still on there. And they changed your title.

Speaker 2 (04:23.296)

did they? What do they call me now? really? Of course. They know I'm watching over their shoulder. Every turn.

Speaker 1 (04:24.952)

You didn't senior advisor or something?

Speaker 1 (04:39.596)

But you've been I you're not a pro dog trainer. You don't claim to be a pro. you're not an amateur.

Speaker 2 (04:49.374)

People confuse th people confuse the the pro versus amateur what you know, in in the dog world it means are you getting paid or are you not getting paid to do you know

differentiates what w what events, you know, field trials and whatnot you can what stakes you can compete in. So pros get paid. Have to compete in open stakes, which are open to everybody. Okay. Amateurs can compete in can compete in open and amateur stakes, but but pros can't compete in amateur stakes.

Speaker 1 (05:12.737)

Okay, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (05:33.122)

Gotcha. So okay. So

Speaker 1 (05:35.616)

A an amateur with a really good dog and a really could compete.

Speaker 2 (05:40.424)

I've always I've always said, you know, it's more competitive in the amateur state. It really is. Because those you know, a a a good amateur, you know, doesn't have to spread his time out amongst a string of 30 dogs that, you know, pros, you know, I in my opinion, have to work with what they have been given.

Speaker 1 (05:46.116)

really?

Speaker 1 (06:07.906)

To make a living too. So

Speaker 2 (06:09.142)

they have to client dogs. Yeah. So and so yeah yeah people would get that confused. I I've always you know enjoyed running in open stakes you know with the pros and and been whatever successful you know at either one but there's some times where it's more competitive and you were competing against the amateurs.

Speaker 1 (06:33.522)

recently successful. So I got a photo of you holding a plate. yeah. But I I'm not super knowledgeable about, you know, the dog competition. Tell me what you competed in. And this was with Kane, right? An English pointer. And and I believe that plate says first plate.

Speaker 2 (06:53.87)

Right. He's been a lot of fun. You know, I've always you know labeled myself as a short hair guy. I I you know, I stumbled upon this pointer, you know, a few years back and it's just been very different animal and really enjoy. You know, he's he's just been a really nice dog.

Speaker 1 (07:12.268)

Had you ever had an English pointer?

Speaker 2 (07:13.984)

I I have, you know, here and there, but it's been a few years, you know, I've been around.

Speaker 2 (07:22.186)

No, I I think this one is a little special, you know. he runs big, came out of a camel out of British Columbia, out of big country and very well bred. and that's a it's the kind of dog I like. You know, I I enjoy watching a dog, you know, cover ground in beautiful country, you know.

Speaker 1 (07:47.758)

When you say a dog runs big, it's a different statement than somebody else telling me that. Because I think about riding horseback with you in Montana in Sharpie season in September in Luna, short hair that I would put up against any dog I've ever hunted with is one of the best. I think Luna was a a dare darn near a mile out on my garment. Kane runs bigger than

Speaker 2 (08:18.175)

Yeah, I mean No yeah, they they they can run big but they can't you know nobody likes a a runoff a dog that isn't going with ya. That's it's not enjoyable. But there's certain dogs that can can can have that range and they're still going with you. It's incredible. Meaning they're staying they're they're paying attention to

Speaker 1 (08:41.816)

Playing going with ya.

Speaker 2 (08:46.54)

the direction you're going and

Speaker 2 (08:52.824)

There's a lot of all age, you've maybe heard that term, that's that's the the highest level where those dogs are expected in all age stakes to go at extreme range, you know, pushing the limits as far as range, but they have to be found, you know, standing on point or or they have to go with you. They gotta demonstrate that they're actually.

They're actually handling for you. They're not just out there just you know running willy-nilly and and this this particular dog, Kane, has demonstrated, you know, the ability to to go, you know, he'll he'll he'll pop out of a cover off a after taking a cast and he'll turn and look and it might be

four or five hundred yards and all I gotta do is ride my horse in the direction that that we're going and he goes to the front. Now he seems to know where the front is. So it

Speaker 1 (10:01.74)

And I feel like that was true with every dog I've hunted with the Luna, Liza, Louisa. the the other thing is if they find a bird, they stand, they point, they don't creep, they don't break, they're steady. Yeah. They give you time on a horse to ride, get off the horse, pull the shotgun out of the scabbard, hand me the reins so the horses don't w wander off. Right. And then approach.

Speaker 2 (10:07.224)

We sure.

Speaker 2 (10:20.238)

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (10:31.16)

Which can take some time.

Speaker 2 (10:33.366)

It's it's a beautiful thing when when it all comes together, right? And that's that's what we live for. Yeah. You know, it's not so much, you know, that we fill the game bag or whatever. It's those moments that when it all comes together, the you know, it's it's it it's perfect and and that's that's what we train for. That's what we you know, that's we are always thinking about in the back of our head, you reliving those moments and when they you

When it all comes together it's it's something special.

Speaker 1 (11:06.67)

So I'm gonna come back to that in a moment because we're gonna you know, that's part of what I wanna talk about is why those moments are so important to you and also your vision for why we should grab those and show them to other people. Right. I want be as part of the introduction, you you're also beyond training with this ragtag group of pheasants forever employees and hangers on and just an eclectic group that comes

Every Wednesday night, you don't ask for any compensation for putting this day. Use all your launchers, your equipment, your horses, pigeons. you also volunteer. You're the president of the Minnesota Field Trial Association. You're involved with Minnesota Shorthair Club. And if you go to Game Fair, you're volunteering, work in a booth. If you're at Pheasant Fest and Quail Classic, you're volunteering, working a booth.

Speaker 2 (11:53.418)

Federation of Field Trial Comps.

Speaker 1 (12:05.888)

Anytime I've ever asked you to attend a Pheasants Forever banquet, Clay Chute, you're volunteering your time.

Speaker 2 (12:15.822)

I enjoy doing it. I really do, you know, and I think

It always it surprises me at times, you know.

Speaker 2 (12:26.978)

that there's other people that enjoy it as much as I do. And there is people that, you know, that drive an hour on a Wednesday night to come up and and make one, you know, lap around and work their dog on, you know, three birds. They find value obviously to that. And, you know, that's why I do it. Yeah. You know, they keep coming and, you know, we've we've kept that group

It's it's wide open. It it has been. I've never said no to anybody as far as, you know, if you wanna come on up, you know.

Speaker 1 (13:04.92)

They gotta be pointers though, with or is

Speaker 2 (13:07.566)

Right. No, no, yeah, we pretty much just concentrate on point pointing breeds. But it's it's the wide range, you know, of

Speaker 2 (13:18.36)

Griffs. Griffs.

Speaker 1 (13:19.598)

Britney's French Britney's.

Speaker 2 (13:25.086)

well.

Speaker 1 (13:26.606)

There's wire hairs, short hair, short hairs. Sat yeah, there's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (13:28.622)

Lots of yard hairs. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (13:34.216)

before finish the introduction, you mentioned you just in retirement, you're busy doing all sorts of things. You you touched on this, you know, you work on the grounds or different grounds. i in Minnesota where we live, there's only two, I believe, two public wildlife areas that are open during nesting season for dog training. Right. and you

work on both of them in a little bit different capacities. Explain I I know you spent a pile of time at Ford Brooks this summer. Well you with your equipment. What have you been doing there?

Speaker 2 (14:14.23)

Well, f Four Brooks was established back in two thousand, twenty six years ago now. And when that when that was when that property was acquired by the state, you know, at its conception, the dog clubs were were looking for an area to be able to utilize to train on and hold events. And that's and

And it's just a portion of that wildlife management area that we have the ability to to train even during the nesting period on that s I wanna call it small portion, but in comparison to

Speaker 1 (15:01.43)

Yeah, it's maybe twenty percent, fifteen.

Speaker 2 (15:03.81)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:06.614)

It's right along highway one sixty nine for Rice in Minnesota, just south of Mall.

Speaker 2 (15:11.51)

Yeah. Just north of Malacca, south of One Oneemia. You know, a lot of people are familiar with it. They drive past it going up to going up north. Going fishing. But it's still an hour's drive from the Twin Cities. I think it's it's a beautiful place to be able to to train your dogs on. and but you know, it is like I say, it's it's an hour's drive.

The next one that that we've recently been working towards establishing the same type of setup is Keystone, which is in Washington County over near Hugo.

Speaker 1 (15:53.206)

Minnesotans in the Twin Cities know it formally as California.

Speaker 2 (15:57.23)

Kelly Farms. It had been a cattle ranch and sheep. And sheep for long, long time and and yeah, but it was a place where you know people could train and and hold dog events there, you know, for going on probably fifty years. It was

Speaker 1 (16:19.47)

Private and you had to buy a membership and it was recently donated.

Speaker 2 (16:25.132)

Was purchased, you know, yeah, it was purchased through the Trust for Public Land and then turned over to the state and turned into a wildlife eighteen hundred acres of that of that twenty four hundred acre cattle ranch w was turned into a wildlife management area. And

But three hundred of those of that eighteen hundred acres is what we have the ability to be able to train on there, you know, through a lease with the with the state yeah, to to be able to train on and from April first through the end of August, you know, before the hunting season starts. So

Speaker 1 (17:15.23)

I'd probably live as the crow flies eight miles from there. And it I'd drive by there almost every day and it is very well loved and used. There's a lot of people that take advantage of that opportunity.

Speaker 2 (17:19.478)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:27.566)

Go in it, yeah. So

Speaker 1 (17:32.982)

And and you've and four brooks you've done a bunch of habitat.

Speaker 2 (17:37.03)

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's been making improvements f for you know, people to be able to train on and just enjoy and just enjoy running a dog out.

So, you know, Four Brooks always had a reputation of being wet, especially in the spring. It doesn't didn't drain all that well. We've done a number of things now. Now it's you know, I think it's a it's one of the prettiest places to be able to turn a dog loose and so but yeah, and I I just enjoy I've I've got a skid steer and brush mower and grapple buck and all the the toys to be able to

to to to do what we need to do up there. And you know in the DNR, we have a great relationship with the area manager up there.

Speaker 1 (18:32.374)

Yeah, he was at our dog club running his

Speaker 2 (18:34.648)

Yeah. What do you got? I can't a griff. Yeah. He had he had a four month old puppy and you know. Yeah. you know, everybody everybody out there, you know, that has dogs, you know, it it the the role that the dogs play in getting people into the outdoors and keeping them there is something that I

Speaker 1 (18:37.846)

A griff, that's right.

Speaker 2 (19:04.642)

I think gets doesn't get enough r as much recognition as what I think it deserves. Well we're gonna let times.

Speaker 1 (19:13.528)

Tell us what you think it deserves in one moment. I want to thank Purina Pro Plan again for being the national dog food sponsor of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever's Wildlife Habitat Mission and the presenting sponsor of On the Wing Podcast. My pups from Tramel to Izzy, Esky Gitchy, and now Little Winter, sitting in John's Kennel. I have always eaten Purina ProPlan.

Purina's always supported our wildlife habitat mission, which is incredibly important to me. But what's even more important is that Purina Pro Plan is a team of the world's best scientists and nutritionists behind their dog food. Purina Pro Plan was created for the working bird dog like yours and like mine. Learn more at Proplansport.com.

Speaker 2 (20:08.376)

From Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever National Headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota, this is Casey Sill with the Upland Newsroom, delivering top stories from the Habitat Organization and across the American Uplands. Today is all about chapters. We've got a whole mess of new chapters popping up across the quail range from east coast to west, so let's run through We'll start in South Carolina, where the little P D, that's P E E space D E E, chapter of Quail Forever is just getting underway.

Another local chapter president recently helped the org recruit this new group of volunteers who will add to Quail Forever's mission across the state of South Carolina. Moving on to Texas, where the Medina chapter of Quail Forever was just founded in the southern reaches of the state. The chapter will serve both Medina and Frio counties, focusing on quail conservation across South Texas. Just north of the Texas border, the Arbuckle Quail Forever chapter has just been founded.

This new chapter realizes Oklahoma Regional Representative Laura McIver's 12 year journey to start a chapter near the Texas border in South Central Oklahoma. Based in Ardmore, Oklahoma, the chapter is located in the heart of several Bob White quail focal areas where volunteers will be able to make an immediate impact to the org's habitat mission. Following that same trail north once again, we land in Missouri, where the Ovaz Creek Quail Forever chapter was recently created. And for any locals listening, how'd you like my pronunciation on that one? Let me know if I got it right.

Anyway, this new chapter will serve East Central Missouri and is full of bird hunters, dog enthusiasts, and habitat lovers that are laser focused on delivering and advocating for upland habitat. We'll end way out to the west in Oregon, where the Southwest Oregon chapter of Quail Forever is getting its footing. Located in prime territory for multiple species, this chapter will focus on improving habitat and hunting opportunities for both valley and mountain quail. Congratulations to all these new chapters.

Welcome to the Bird Club and we can't wait to see what you'll accomplish in the years to come. If you're interested in joining or learning more about these chapters, visit PheasantsForever.org and utilize our Find a Chapter tool. And if you're interested in starting a chapter of your own, there's no time like the present. Once again, head to pheasantsforever.org and contact your regional representative to get the ball rolling. That'll do it this week, reporting from PF and QF headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota. I'm Casey Sill.

Speaker 1 (22:24.63)

All right, the importance of bird dogs. You you've went this direction a couple of times. I'll let you speak philosophically because you and I have talked about this over the course of years. it's a big reason why you volunteer, why you why you care about helping people maximize the potential of other bird dogs. What's what's the role of bird dogs?

Speaker 1 (22:54.092)

What are what is the role of bird dogs in training in the future of hunting, conservation, and everything we care about?

Speaker 2 (23:02.67)

Well, you know, I I s I see the the need that folks have, especially folks coming from the Twin Cities. you know, I I grew up I went to school in Plymouth and and I I grew up i in town, had my first bird dog when I was fifteen years old and

You know, there was there was farm fields within the the belt line of the Twin Cities. I had places to be able to run dogs there. And and boy, really, you know, that's where I just f I fell in love with, you know, spending time in the outdoors with the dog following a dog around. What this was the late seventies.

Speaker 1 (23:51.874)

Decade is this just so

Speaker 1 (23:57.44)

Wh which is not unlike Chicago, Detroit, Omaha, Des Moines, Dallas. You know, it's urbanization has happened all over the country. For our listeners in Quail Country and Pheasant Country, what's happened in the Twin Cities and the growth is not unique to Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (24:15.624)

no, no, no. But so y having a having a place to be able to to train and develop a especially a young dog is key to how much enjoyment you're gonna have, you know, in the fall, actually, you know, doing hunting with them. And people people I I

Speaker 1 (24:42.094)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:43.958)

say they're they're starving for places to be able to to to work their dogs. You know, they need, you know, they can send to a probe, but man, I you get so much more satisfaction being able to, you know, to train and develop your own dog, I think. and that's that's what our Wednesday nights in my opinion are all about is helping people, you to be able to to develop their own dog.

So what I've been as with through the Federation then working towards working with the, you know, our Department of Natural Resources and it is to try to find more opportunities for for people to do, you know, what we've been able to do at Fordbrooks for the past twenty six years, but have it be closer to home. And you know, one of the things that I that I've I call

preaching on, you know, trying to convince folks the the role that the dog plays in in bringing more people into the outdoors is key. And then those folks are the same ones that that value, you know, the ability to to pursue, you know, upland birds and waterfowl with their dogs and and then turn around

and invest in it. You know, the you know, I w I would say the the majority of membership to organizations like Pheasants Forever and and Rough Growl Society and Ducks Unlimited and all of those conservation groups are dog owners and and they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the dog that that either got them there in the first place or

Or is keeping them there. But anyway, but so

Speaker 1 (26:47.272)

We see that, you know, anytime we survey attendees, Vivan Pheasant Fest, what's the number one reason you came? You know, what why would you come back? The dog. Right. You know, if we look at web traffic or social media analytics and evaluate topics, you know, wild game cooking, hunting, habitat, dogs. Always number one. Number one. No matter what we do, what

Speaker 2 (26:55.81)

The dogs.

Speaker 2 (27:10.894)

Right.

Speaker 1 (27:17.45)

survey, what format, what piece of con podcast. It's dogs. Yeah. It's dogs.

Speaker 2 (27:24.716)

It it there's something special about whatever, the bond that you have between, you know, owner or handler and their dogs. It's you know, and I've I quit trying to explain it, you know, because yeah, I think sometimes we come off a little bit unhinged or goof goofy on to well to people to people that have never experienced it, right? They don't I don't think they understand.

Speaker 1 (27:45.358)

Is that a short?

Speaker 2 (27:54.478)

until they've actually experienced the relationship that people have with their dogs. And you know, it's like you say that's something that I whatever, it's it's been my life, you know, with my dogs and and I and I see it, you know, repeated in, you know, people that show up, you know, they got a young puppy and, you know, man, they they

They you know, with some help with, you know, putting some birds in front of at Wednesday night training and they discover, holy smokes, I never, you know, I never realized this is this is pretty cool what my dog can do or what it was bred and born to do. Yeah. and they fall in love with it. Yeah. And so

Speaker 1 (28:49.362)

you've you've learned I think from a variety of ways. People through videos, through books, what what it wha what's kind of been your primary

Speaker 2 (28:53.95)

It's true.

Speaker 2 (29:02.986)

I'm still learning. I mean, I I I probably listened to as many other podcasts and whatnot on dog training as anybody out there. And I learned something from each and every one of them. I really do. There's just so much. Yeah. There's so much to learn as far as when it comes to to handling dogs and and and training. There's there's a multitude of different methods. And I think if each of us

you know, kind of develops our own and what works and and the more experience, you know, you have with multiple dogs, I I get a little bit more comfortable in being able to to do, you know, what I'm doing. I have the resources with the birds and whatnot. And and that's kind of why I've got winter out there in the kennels because I you know, I can s I have the resources with the birds and whatnot.

And I can spend some time and I can save you the time and get her to a point, you know what what I'll be working with her on is is what is she?

Speaker 1 (30:11.712)

Year.

Speaker 2 (30:13.794)

Coming up on two years, she's had the experience. It's now time to we call it breaking them, as far as putting we're gonna install a a ro remote control set of brakes on her low training. Okay. So that now, you know, we can we can take her to the next step and that's you know, stop to flush training with

would be on the heels of that, you know, but when a bird gets up and she's expected to to stop. And and now, you know, we'll get her to a point where, you know, she'll she'll learn that that's the new routine. When they're when they're young dogs, we let bump and chase and have all sorts of fun just for that first year and learn that they can't catch

Once they've and they they're also learning how and where and you know and how to get birds f pointed, which she's she's done that and but now it's it's time to take the chase away. And

Speaker 1 (31:26.604)

Yeah, she's she's pointing decent. You know, she'll break. retrieve is pretty good. Thanks. Mike Weeben did a nice job with the retrieve. She had a okay hunting season last year, but yeah, she's not steady. So you talked about the woe post and you know the what's the Smith lead? Wonder that so it

Speaker 2 (31:51.426)

That Wonder Leader Lead.

Speaker 1 (31:55.128)

Try to explain the wool post to what you're gonna be doing.

Speaker 2 (31:58.53)

Well, it's it's yeah, I mean it's the method that I've used. There's a number of different ones that other people use, but it's essentially the Smith method. And it involves, you know, posts in the ground, a rope coming off the post goes around their flank and then to their their collar. Okay. And then a check cord coming from you to their collar. So they're essentially cross tight.

When they're cross tied, they they reach the end of that rope, it puts constriction on their flank and their belly. And and they're immobilized because they're cross tied. And a number of repetitions with that, they understand that constriction around their belly, that that stimulation on their belly means stop. They have to stop. Okay.

So we'll then transition instead of a rope on their belly, it is an e-collar. That e-collar, this then stimulation on their belly means one thing, means stop. There's no confusion. If it was on the neck, sometimes dogs will get confused because every other time they've they've felt stem on the neck, it was probably to reelament.

to call them back and whatnot. Sometimes it it can cause some confusion. Well they're that point of contact on their belly means one thing. So a dog can be once you've once we've gone through it, a dog can be out there even out of earshot. They can't even hear you and you can stop them with the push of a button. Stop very light. And they wave to you. Right.

Speaker 1 (33:50.22)

With stimulation in the belly.

Speaker 1 (33:55.598)

Which it which is what you helped me with eskey, you helped me with Gitchy. And so if folks have seen my dogs historically with a sport dog orange collar on their belly, this is the exact same thing that we're doing. Parking breaks. Yeah. Just means absolutely one singular thing. They feel stimulus on their belly. They're gonna st so then you translate that into woe for

Speaker 2 (34:10.259)

It's a

Speaker 2 (34:19.575)

Yeah. All right.

Speaker 2 (34:25.068)

Right, you'll overlay the woe command, you know, through that process and and it's I think it's it's been really effective, you know, for the all of the dogs that I've worked with and I have confidence in the whole method and being able to to you know have a rock solid, you know, woe.

Speaker 2 (34:50.932)

Once you have that and you can stop a dog at any time at at any distance essentially, there's a lot more things that you can do.

Speaker 1 (35:01.174)

It's also safer in a lot of ways. yeah. You I I end up, you know, taking all sorts of levels of people skill level out hunting if you participate in youth events or new mentor or you know, new hunter. Like having a dog that you can absolutely stop is critical.

Speaker 2 (35:19.032)

Right. Right. Well, it's easier to develop, you know, the dog to understand when they do their job and they correctly they get rewarded. There's dog it takes time. Some dogs I don't never seem to really pick up on it, but when they understand that, you know.

And that bird goes, if they push that bird up before you get there or the bird the bird goes before you get there, they don't they don't have the opportunity for a retrieve. And and I I believe, you know, I've had dogs that I I know for a fact that understand that, you know, they messed up, they failed when when that bird was pushed up before you got there.

They'll get pointed and and and hold them there until you get there, you get shot. Those dogs, they celebrate just as much as we do when we when we kill a bird, they get a retrieve. They really do. And Yeah, there's jury mouth full of fingers. Yeah. So and that's all part of the whole, you know, connection between hands.

Speaker 1 (36:38.328)

Their face with mouth.

Speaker 2 (36:49.258)

is something special. I think when it all comes together, it's I guess they a beautiful thing. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 (36:56.486)

another beautiful thing is entering into you know hunting season, your first hunting season is a retired guy. let us live vicariously through you for a moment. What's what's your autumn gonna look like, John? You got you got it's your kennel is you got cane. We just won first place. What was it?

Speaker 2 (37:19.727)

It was a open shooting dog steak. It was a weekend trial, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:24.814)

So you got a high quality dog. You got another one that Louie you're shorter that Darn near could win second place in that, right? Louis

Speaker 2 (37:30.712)

He's a veteran.

Speaker 2 (37:36.079)

Yeah, no, he he's he's g he's good.

Speaker 1 (37:39.968)

And then you get a pop. Greta is one.

Speaker 2 (37:43.512)

Year and a half. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:45.922)

I feel like you should have more dogs right now.

Speaker 2 (37:48.042)

Right, right. No. No, I'm filling my kennels up with with Swift or two.

Speaker 1 (37:55.264)

Yeah. Winter my dog. No. So where where are you going this far?

Speaker 2 (38:00.492)

You know, I'm I'm not as organized as you are. you know me, I've you know I'll break it up as we go. Yeah, yeah. It's always been a favorite of mine is is going out west and you know, early season sharp tails and huns. It's you know.

Speaker 1 (38:06.744)

You'll be going to Montana.

Speaker 1 (38:20.226)

And you'll be hunting around here, you love

Speaker 2 (38:22.018)

Ralph Krauss, much so.

Speaker 1 (38:24.45)

Are you gonna finally get to Arizona? Are you gonna bring your horses to Arizona?

Speaker 2 (38:27.672)

They said kind of well, whatever the season kind of went to pot w last year. Yeah. Yeah, I probably would have been there, but I was being told, Yeah, it's it's probably not worth it, you know, worth the drive. Right. Could could be, you know. No, yeah, I didn't enjoy you getting down.

Speaker 1 (38:41.528)

Keith is selling you a bill of goods.

Speaker 1 (38:48.482)

What else is on your bucket list, so to speak?

Speaker 2 (38:51.984)

it's you know, it's maybe going even going out there, you know, in you know, late August or something and and running dogs with a lot of the pros that are are training on wild birds and stuff out there that are running dogs. That's it's a b something I've I've never really done before and you know, to develop young dogs especially. Will it

Speaker 1 (39:14.754)

Year? Will Kane be qualified to go do that and run in August on some sort of competition?

Speaker 2 (39:23.278)

yeah, he he he's qualified to be able to run in championships and that sort of thing. But what I'm talking about is is just summer training. Okay. And yeah, it's not something that I've loaded up, you know, horses and dogs and and head up to, you know, North Dakota or what have you and and and run on wild birds before the season and that sort of thing is

Speaker 2 (39:55.71)

It it it goes a long way in developing young dogs, it really does, you know. What what we essentially do with pigeons and launchers on Wednesday nights is a it's an imitation of that wild bird encounter. It really is. We can pop that bird at times when the dog is getting too close, just like a just like a wild bird would would flush when a dog is getting too close and they and they they learn.

And that's essentially that's essentially what folks are doing. I mean, wild birds are are the ideal to be able to develop, especially a young dog, right? And getting them to understand. So anyhow. Yeah. We'll find wild birds.

Speaker 1 (40:43.106)

Congratulations on retirement. but more importantly, thank you. Thanks for all you do. Volunteering, holding Wednesday night training clubs, working on behalf of all sorts of bird dog owners and creating places. So

Speaker 2 (40:59.97)

Had a lot of I had a lot of great folks. Just you know, and that just that's what really lights my fire is is people that are, you know, just as excited to see their dog, you know, develop and improve and whatnot, you know, reach their potential as as I do. It really does. That's what turns me on.

Speaker 1 (41:25.016)

Hope winter turns you on big time 'cause that would make me very happy.

Speaker 2 (41:31.009)

She's a great dog already. She really is.

Speaker 1 (41:33.4)

Well, thank you for the help. I I sincerely appreciate it. All right, folks. Thanks for listening. That's my buddy John Zeman. he's been on a number of times if you want to go back and listen. very early podcast, as I mentioned, went on went horseback hunt a horseback hunt with John. Wow. I don't know, was that 10 years ago now?

Speaker 2 (41:59.982)

That was quite of an experience.

Speaker 1 (42:03.53)

I giggle every time maybe day three, you and Dan kinda looked at each other and it wa this was my first experience with horses. You kinda looked at each other and you guys started galloping off. Do you remember this? You son of a gun. You you you sure you you guys just went on a dead run and what I didn't know about horses is they want to be together. Right? And it I th I was on Angel.

Speaker 2 (42:28.097)

Of course.

Hey.

Speaker 1 (42:32.467)

An angel had to be with you guys. And I was holding on for dear life. She's

Speaker 2 (42:36.192)

yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:41.195)

She's not the smoothest horse either, so poor poor Bob.

Speaker 1 (42:45.23)

Yippee Kaye. All right, folks. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob St.Pierre reminding you to always follow the dog. Something good will rise. Thanks, folks.