PODCAST EP. 364: Keeping Your Bird Dog Sharp with a Busy Family Life

Transcript for On The Wing Podcast Ep. 364: Keeping Your Bird Dog Sharp with a Busy Family Life

Speaker 1 (00:50.578)

Welcome to On The Wing podcast presented by Purina Pro Plan. On today's edition of On The Wing podcast, I'm excited to welcome back our senior public relations specialist and our resident actor for a conversation. You knew I had to bring that in here at some point, Casey.

Speaker 2 (01:14.158)

It's tradition at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:18.041)

I'm not sure what movie of years we'll talk about, but we'll just see where that leads. But Casey conceptualized the idea for today's episode. So I'm going to throw it to Casey to tell us a little bit about the idea that he proposed to me via email just a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (01:43.372)

I'm gonna set this up like this. I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but I have two dogs. I have a setter and a lab. The setter's a great little dog, but has basically no formal training. We just kind of figured it out together. The lab, I got my lab seven years ago. I got super invested in training through NARA, North American Hunting Retriever Association, and hunt testing her. I've been doing that for about five years. I think I started when she was about two. Anyway, a couple of years ago, my wife and I had a baby. And it radically changes, well, it radically changes everything about your life, but like your relationship with your dogs and the time you have available for training. And it's been sort of a challenge for me to figure out how to retain some time for training. So I thought it would be a good idea to have an episode where we chat about how to train an experienced dog under those kind of time constraints.

Speaker 1 (03:04.398)

And when Casey proposed that concept to me, the first person that came to my mind was the pride of South Dakota himself, SportDog's very own, with a bird dog, I'm sorry, a bird report from South Dakota, Clay Thompson. Clay, thanks for making time to join us again. What you been up to?

Speaker 3 (03:30.038)

I'm thrilled to be here, guys. I love the chance to chat. And it always turns into laughs and gets some good stories going. But it is spring on the prairie. We have had the typical wait five minutes and the weather will change. I think we've hit 80. And we've had snow recently. Yesterday was a pop-up pea-sized hailstorm that came out of nowhere and just blacked the sky. Nothing big enough to do any damage, but I have been out and about chasing turkeys, which has had me driving some back roads and kind of getting off the beaten path. And I have to say that the number of pheasants I'm seeing is impressive. We had a good fall, the bird numbers were good. But most impressively, this spring is, I've seen a lot of hens, guys. So the ladies made it. Hopefully we get, you know, right conditions and we get good nesting, know, breeding conditions, but I am very, pleased with the population I'm seeing, where I'm seeing them. It's a place that we haven't seen birds in a long time.

Speaker 1 (04:40.728)

That's great. you remind me, you live in the northeast corner of the state? Yes.

Speaker 3 (04:45.623)

I'm up in Dade County.

Speaker 2 (04:46.849)

Okay.

Speaker 1 (04:48.002)

Well, that's very encouraging. I'm sure tons of listeners are excited to hear that. Because even before we hit record, you're like, I've got a good bird report for you. So South Dakotan, ready to share the goods on what the birds look like is always a positive indication of a fun fall ahead. Thanks for taking the time to join us. Now, we're going to talk a bit about...

Speaker 3 (05:10.062)

Thanks.

Speaker 1 (05:18.092)

dogs and family in life that gets busy. Set the stage from your personal perspective, what your family life is like.

Speaker 3 (05:28.28)

So our youngest daughter, if I start crying, edit that out, will be graduating here in just a couple of weeks. So we will be sending our baby off to South Dakota State. we're, as I told her, I said it's sad she's going, but the only thing sadder is if she didn't want to go. And so that's kind of where we are, but with her, her older sister is going to graduate this summer from South Dakota State. And then our oldest, she's out of college up in North Dakota.

So I don't have Casey's experience of dogs and babies because I came in the relationship, I married into teenagers. And so we brought a puppy into that situation. But I can tell you that it's not the same because obviously at 18, she's way more independent, but the challenging schedule and the trying to keep up with all the activities and the things.

I can empathize with, OK, I've got to keep this dog tuned up, but we're going 20 different directions regularly. totally, totally get it and understand why this topic is close to home for you.

Speaker 1 (06:43.788)

Yes. So we're all over the spectrum here, right? Because I've only had dogs. I've never had kids. You married into teenagers clay and Casey's got a young Henry. How old's Henry right now, Casey? Harry. Harry, I'm sorry. That's okay. Yeah, it was Henry. Harry.

Speaker 2 (07:01.772)

Harry.

Speaker 2 (07:07.18)

I don't know, neighbor kid. Harry, he just turned two.

Speaker 1 (07:13.122)

Harry turned two and number two is on the way this fall.

Speaker 2 (07:18.442)

on the way due in November. Congrats. Yeah, thank you. Right in the middle of bird season, which it just worked out the way it worked out.

Speaker 1 (07:30.03)

Are you gonna name him Henry or is it a her?

Speaker 2 (07:33.89)

I feel like I have.

Speaker 1 (07:38.882)

Harry, Harry will listen back on this. He's like, who's Henry?

Speaker 2 (07:41.964)

Here. With the second one, don't know, Kara Girl yet, but we may be finding out it's imminent, possibly today. wow. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:55.202)

So Casey, I have a friend, his dad made a mistake that I'm going to encourage you not to make. His first born was born in the middle of duck season. And he decided that since he wasn't a physician and he had no way of helping with the delivery, that he would go ahead and go duck hunting. And he was not greeted very warmly when he showed up in the hospital later to meet his son for the first

Speaker 2 (08:19.342)

Yeah, I can imagine that probably got him in some trouble. My wife and I have had that conversation.

Speaker 1 (08:27.062)

What you don't know about Casey is he is absolutely hardcore duck hunter as well. So due date coming in November is probably not ideal.

Speaker 3 (08:37.518)

No, the blue bill will be flying that day, canvas backs will be everywhere, and you'll be at the hospital.

Speaker 2 (08:42.35)

Gladly. You know, when long before our first son was born, long before Harry was born, Aaron and I discussed when we started to talk about having kids. The only thing I said was, I just don't want to have a baby in November. Here we go, man.

Speaker 1 (09:04.142)

Here we go. All right, I'm going to turn the microphone over to Casey to steer the ship. Before I do that, I want to first of all thank Purina Pro Plan. Not only is Purina the national dog food sponsor of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever's Wildlife Habitat mission, as I mentioned in the opening, Purina is also the presenting partner of On the Wing podcast.

My pups from Trammel, to Izzy, to Esky, and now my current little Gitche Gumi and Little Winter, they have always eaten Purina Pro Plan. Not just because Purina supports the wildlife habitat mission of our organization, which is incredibly important to me, but what's most important to that is that Purina Pro Plan was created by a team of the world's best scientists and nutritionists for the working bird dog like yours and like mine. You can learn more at ProPlanSport.com.

And a special thank you for this particular episode to SportDog. SportDog is the sponsoring partner of this episode of On The Wing podcast and founded way back in 2003, the year I started with Pheasants Forever. SportDog has been a partner with Pheasants Forever since that time and with Quail Forever starting in 2005 when Quail Forever came to be. SportDog has been part of our upland traditions the entire history of QF and most of the history of PF. So from preseason training to opening day, SportDog is committed to PF, QF, bird Hunters, and the dogs and habitat mission that make it all possible and come together. Every purchase you make with SportDog, you'll see the Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever logo on their packaging and their sales help our efforts to create habitat. You can learn more at SportDog.com.

Speaker 2 (11:20.238)

From Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever National Headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota, this is Casey Sill with the Upland Newsroom, delivering top stories from the Habitat Organization and across the American uplands. We've got a quick one for you all today. The big news around the conservation world lately is all about the Farm Bill, which recently passed the full U.S. House of Representatives by a vote of 224 to 200, advancing the process to complete a bipartisan five-year farm bill for the first time since 2018.

The federal Farm Bill is the single most important piece of legislation for conservation on private lands, supporting programs that improve habitat, soil health, water quality, and rural economies. Critically, the House Farm Bill would reauthorize the Conservation Reserve Program through 2031. The bill also makes much needed improvements to other Farm Bill conservation programs that deliver meaningful benefits on working agricultural and forest lands.

House Committee on Agriculture Chairman Glenn G.T. Thompson of Pennsylvania said the new Farm Bill is long overdue and is an important step forward in providing certainty to the nation's farmers, ranchers, and rural communities. Pheasants Forever Director of Government Affairs Andrew Schmidt congratulated Chairman Thompson and the rest of the House Ag Committee on the passage and urged further cooperation on the bill in the coming weeks. The focus now shifts to the Senate which will have to pass its own version of the farm bill before leaders negotiate a final bipartisan agreement that can pass both chambers.

One quick parting note, as we all know by now, Hands-On Habitat Month is underway across the country. So if you've got the chance, head over to your favorite piece of public land, pick up some garbage, remove some fence posts, cut down some buckthorn, and get out there and get your hands on some habitat this May. That'll do it this week. Reporting from PF and QF headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota, I'm Casey Sill.

Speaker 1 (13:11.566)

Casey, this is your baby. Take it away. Well, your baby. How'd you like that? didn't even attend it. Your puppy, your baby. Take it away.

Speaker 2 (13:21.974)

All right. so I want to just rehash real quick before we get into it that I, this concept in this question in my mind is, is, is about taking an experienced dog and keeping them in tune when your time sort of decreases a little bit. know the time commitment it takes to turn to like start with a puppy and turn it into a working dog. So I'm not, this isn't something where like, I'm looking for a quick fix. We're like, Hey, I got a puppy and I don't have time to train it. How do you, you know, it's like, this is for guys who have experienced dogs and then have a big life change. And how do we keep them in shape? my first question, Clay, is, is this something that you, is this a question that you've heard come up over the years in your time, you know, training your dogs, working with other trainers? Is this something that folks talk about or a question that comes up?

Speaker 3 (14:11.406)

It totally comes up. mean, I'm just I'm picturing the times at pheasant fest, game fair, you know, other opportunities when you get the chance to talk to that dog owner. And it's it is because it's such an exciting time. You got to get a new baby. You're so excited about that. But as you know, with that now, the dog is going to be curious about the baby. So we've got to have some little, you know, some control there. We need to have some ability to to make sure that the dog and the baby can cohabitate. The dog's got to be a good citizen. And now, like if he steps on your foot, well, okay, it might hurt, but we really got to watch around the kids. So to me, the biggest thing I'm going to always go back to is your basic obedience, that there is nothing basic about it. That if we don't have a good citizen that will place, sit, come, just all those

Give me those three commands. Throw in the heel command. If we don't have those, we're going to have a dog who gets relegated to the crate, right? Because we just, we can't have him around the baby. And if we lose that, we're going to lose that polish that we had coming off of last season. We'd had a good season, the dog got tuned up. if you can only do little bits, and fortunately, it's

It just takes quick drills. Brushing up on the basic obedience and getting those control commands just dialed in, I think, is absolutely critical and also really attainable.

Speaker 2 (15:51.246)

Yeah, so what let's just let's jump right into that I I had that on my mind but since we're already talking about it What are some of the like any examples of that right like? things that you can do Maybe even before before a baby shows up to get the dog ready for to introduce them to the baby, know anything once the baby comes home or how to keep that obedience up in short little snippets.

Speaker 3 (16:27.694)

You bet. And I think one of the biggest keys here is consistency. So, you know, you've got to get your wife on board, too. Bring her into these training sessions, because you're not always going to be standing there when she needs to get the dog under control. If you've, it's not in your case, but if you had older kids, you know, kids who are of the age to where they can understand the commands and the timing of it, get everybody in the family who feasibly can participate involved in this training. But my most used command in the house is Place. And we have, I'm embarrassed to tell you the number of dog beds that we have in this house. And I'm not really sure why, because they sleep in the human beds and on our couches and our chairs. You know, it's definitely their house. We just pay the bills. But that Place command is so critical.

Speaker 2 (17:03.639)

No.

Speaker 3 (17:25.512)

L.S. We Bob you and I have talked about him my.

Speaker 1 (17:28.397)

my favorite dog name little shit. That's him Ellis. Ellis is little shit. Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:35.126)

Yes, it's true story. he, he thinks that everybody in the world is there to pet him and especially to rub his belly. And so, he, he wants to greet, but he's also 65 pounds and leggy. So he mean, he's, he's intimidating if. You know, you're not used to dogs or if you're a small child. So having, a dog bed that's right there in the living room by the front door, having that control over him to place.

And I'm going to admit that I need to, I need to work on this myself. We had some friends stop by the other day, and I did not have a level of control that I should. And so I'm, this is not one of those where, Glass House, I'm not throwing stones. But just saying, you know, need to be worked on. So that's my favorite command in the house, because if he's coming over and begging at the dinner table, it's like, Nope, don't tolerate it. You know, it's a place.

having that ability to send them somewhere and then also being that you go there when I tell you, you come off when I tell you. It's not that you get on the place and then you get to immediately hop off and do that. And it's something that is pretty easily done. You can start it on leash. I also like stealing some of Tom Dockens lines. Use a raised platform, especially when we're teaching this command, because if we have a defined edge, because if we just throw out like a welcome mat and the dog sits on that, the difference in the welcome mat and the floor next to it is half an inch. And so that defined edge is not as defined as it is if we have a raised platform. And it doesn't have to be like one of the Arkansas flooded timber three footers, but even just something that's several inches of foot off the ground really does, it makes a difference in the dog's mind. I'm on it. I'm not. And then from there, it's like, OK, especially early on, we want it to be really tight. just having your butt on it but your paw off is not acceptable. It's like, place, know, kind of setting them back on there. But it's also, I'm not talking about putting them on top of a fire hydrant. Give them something that they've got enough room that they can comfortably be on their butt.

Speaker 3 (20:01.314)

That defined edge and a designated play spot to me is critical in the house.

Speaker 2 (20:07.662)

Hmm, okay, sure. And what obviously the uses for that when you have a little kid around are endless, right? Not just meal times, but play times. I'm thinking about with Harry, sometimes the dogs, you want to play with your son or daughter in the living room and the dogs want to play too and it's not always, it just doesn't always work out, you know. yeah. Yeah, so you got, I think that I've seen the value a lot more since my son was born and that there are some times in the day where you just need to go lay on your in your place whatever that may be on your bed or on a race platform or before some you know, the dogs are so involved in your lives and and I think once when a kid comes into the Comes into the equation sometimes they they just need to go and sit lay down and be quiet so you can focus on what you're doing with with the kid, yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:05.166)

So, you talked about when a baby comes into your life. Clay mentioned this a moment ago, just that really critically important time when the dog meets the baby for the first time. I'm wondering, Clay, there... We talk very often about socializing puppies with other dogs, socializing puppies with people.

Is there a process for socializing a dog with babies before your own baby actually shows up on the floor in their space? Because I got to believe as a new parent, that's probably the most dangerous, fearful moment is when that baby comes home and starts crawling and yanking on the tail of the dog. It's like, how is ? gonna react to a baby? How do you prepare for that?

Speaker 3 (22:07.0)

You know, I don't, I don't have a really good answer for that one, because it's, it's kind of the, law school buddy of my dad said that he was a fighter pilot in Vietnam. And he said, the reason you don't practice, ejecting out of a fighter jet is you don't practice something you have to do perfectly a hundred percent of the time. And so if in a situation, I would want, I would want something, someone who had firm control, hold of a collar, you know, easing the dog. You've also as an owner, you've got to know your dog's personality. If we have that breed or we have that individual who is just kind of an asshole, let's, you know, let's be really mindful of that. when we have friends who have brought abies into the home, again, it's a someone's holding the baby up above the dog. It's not a, let's get down on the ground and give the dog where he has all the advantages here. Let's have a situation where someone's holding him. Someone's bringing the baby in, you know, get some sniffs, of be some curiosity there. Having the baby in a playpen or some kind of an enclosure. The dog doesn't have full access, but can still sniff and observe.

Speaker 1 (23:37.288)

them to it.

Speaker 3 (23:38.678)

know, things like that, you know, we've done. that as far as like, if you want to talk about bird and gun introduction, we can have a great chat about that. Bringing the babies in, like there's, I don't think you could bring in a doll and simulate this. Right? That's a tough one for me.

Speaker 1 (23:56.334)

Yeah, but your recommendation, like just the enclosure to protect them both and get them kind of accustomed. Casey, I'm assuming you went through that process with Harry, right? How did you do it?

Speaker 2 (24:13.624)

Well, and I think what Clay said about knowing the personality of your dogs with art, that was the biggest one for us. I am, and still to this day at two years old, we handle his interactions with my setter way differently than with our lab. Our lab, he wrestles her, crawls all over her, he can pull on her ears. I know that she loves it. The setter, who's a fan?

leave her alone. You know, it's like, it's, it's just a different level of attentiveness. And so that that was really the challenge for us was like, understanding our dogs individual personalities and how an annoying kid is gonna, you know, how they're going to react to that. But we definitely went through like the initial bring him home from the hospital.

was, you we kept both of them fairly distant for a while. One, just because you have a million other things on your mind. But yeah, like really similar to what I said is like slow introductions for both of them. We kind of like worked them up to it. And then, you know, take them through to the point where now they're both pretty used to having a little kid around. Yeah.

But yeah, was a big conversation and a concern of ours.

Speaker 3 (25:42.21)

Well, and I think another thing that's important is, you said the lab loves it and it's fine with ears pulled, tail pulled and all this. I think we do need to realize that a little bit of that's fine. But if you notice the dog's kind of like, dude, I've had enough of this. There's nothing wrong with taking the dog away from the baby. I think you're not depriving the baby at that point. You owe it to the dog to be like, okay, you deserve some dignity as well.

So some of that playing is fine. But I think if it crosses the line, yeah, let's place or even create at that point if we've got a dog that's a little annoyed. And as the kid gets older, I think it becomes easier. like we both said, it's just knowing your dog and being able to read those signs like, OK, your setters, I've had enough. And that level is really low when enough happens. Just reading the situations.

Speaker 2 (26:40.044)

Yeah, and I think it doesn't take the kid well at least for us it didn't take Harry too long. I mean once he's able to walk He's able to understand like with the lab if he wants to play with her Then you're he's old enough to train him right to like here's how you treat a dog Don't pull on her tail. You know, it's like that's that stuff's not gonna happen You set those boundaries once they're old enough to kind of understand that. Yeah

Speaker 3 (27:07.884)

And I'm sure it too, Harry's a pretty good source of treats that come down from the high chair to your lab.

Speaker 2 (27:13.486)

The greatest thing that has ever happened to my dogs in their mind, I'm sure. I don't know. My wife and I were just talking the other day. I like, I don't know. If we didn't have a dog, who would clean the kitchen floor? Like, we'd have to sweep up. Now you just let them out on the, you know? They're cleaning ours up.

Speaker 3 (27:29.134)

Especially we got a little mini Australian Shepherd who is a notorious floor licker and she's more than a half now and so Julie has said when we lose her we're going to realize how dirty our floors.

Speaker 2 (27:46.164)

Yeah, you'll have to get another you'll have to search out another dog that can be your designated for liquor. To get a new puppy and train it up. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:54.679)

Exactly.

Speaker 3 (27:58.215)

like Golden in the lab. They handle the big chunks, but she's pretty good mop.

Speaker 2 (28:03.244)

Right, she comes in and picks everything else up. So let's talk about a few other, I guess this will probably eventually go back to obedience, but a few other training tips that you can do in the house. I'm thinking primarily about labs, that's sort of my wheelhouse. The first one that comes to mind for me would be steadiness, which is obedience, like not just practicing place, but like

Helping you steady the dog or practice steadiness in the house like sitting next to you at heel whether you're watching TV or doing something with with the kid to help in the dock line Or anywhere that you need to to kill the dog. So is that something that's that seems like an easy entry Level way to like keep training in the house

Speaker 3 (28:54.232)

But 100%. And like I said, using the dog bed as as done lace or as duck season approaches, I go ahead and I get his blind out, clean it up. I'll bring it into my office because he he's asleep underneath my desk right now. But as we start getting close to duck season, putting him in there so that he gets used to when I get in here or when I get on that. We have some other place boards that are smaller.

for just pinning on the cover we're hunting, put him on there and he's going to be on there for a few hours now. Because it sets the expectation of when I get on here, it's not instantly going to be action. Like this can actually just be a spot to chill and be bored. And that's okay too. So I think, like you said, set them next to the couch, watch TV. You know, those things are, I think are really important. And as you said, that steadiness is going to come from that.

you're on there and you're on there until I tell you to get off. And isn't always fun early, because you're having to put them back on, you know, get out of your chair, go put them back on the place, you know, 10 times a minute. But the end result is so worth it.

Speaker 2 (30:09.144)

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (30:10.466)

you know, it to me, it just it really does. It comes back to obedience because in addition to that place command in the house, to me, sit is a command that should be immediately. I haven't owned a bird dog. I'm a pointing breed in 45 years. So I am not the guy to ask on how to do the woe command. But if I had a pointer in the house, I wouldn't want my woe.

to be as solid as the sit command is. Because think about, here comes Harry, and you're not close to your place. Just telling the dog sit and having him immediately comply is important. Being able to have heel under control. When LS at 4.30 comes from his bed around my desk and sits down beside me to make sure that I remember that we eat at five. It's a daily ritual.

Speaker 1 (31:06.318)

Must be related to my dogs, although it's a little bit, it's like 5'15 for my dogs.

Speaker 3 (31:12.458)

So there you go. If I open the door and say, OK, he tears like a madman down the hall, down the stairs to his bowl. So what do we do? We heal. Not every time, but I make sure. And I'm really a stickler for, I want that shoulder at my knee. Two feet ahead is not healing. But what looks like I don't have to go set up a big drill in the backyard.

just the walk from my office down to where we feed, I've got a 45 second minute training session that we get to do daily. So it's those little opportunities that when we didn't have the dogs in the house, there's no way you would go get the dog out of the kennel in the backyard, bring him in, set up a drill to work it for 45 seconds. But by having him in the house and having access to him, we have constant opportunity for these little drills that are just polishing up. you know, they're good citizenship.

Speaker 2 (32:15.672)

Huh. That's really interesting that you talk about bringing, how bringing our dogs into our homes have increased the opportunity for those little training sessions, which is the case whether or not you have kids in home. However much time you have available, think that's pretty valuable to, well, guess that's a longstanding principle, but to have them around you all the time and have the opportunity

to train for five minutes or two minutes or, you know, throughout the day. talk about, talk about the value of just little quick hitter trainings, whether it's in the house or you do get 15 minutes to go outside and run a couple of drills. They talked about that with puppies a lot. Keep it short, keep it short, right? Is that still valuable for an experienced dog?

Speaker 3 (33:10.414)

100%. I mean, because anything that we're consistently, so if we, and that's the other key is that it can't be sometimes this, sometimes that. you know, stay very consistent. You can't ever train too patiently, in my opinion, you know, and metering the level of correction. And when I say that, I'm not talking necessarily e-collar, but it may be your, your hand on the dog, the leash pressure, things like that. That's where

even having just a short session and the dog going like, OK, yep, I still have to do that. Because even at 7 and 1 half, LS, he tests me. Let's see if I still have to do that. And so having those little short sessions absolutely are critical. And then even if it is, just let's go out. Let's go throw a few dummies. Let's set up a pile and run. It doesn't have to be a long line, but just run into a pile, bring the dummy back.

It also blows off some of that energy that our dogs have. It's hard when this dog is sat around all day and then now we're home from work, helping with the baby, get prepping for supper and all this. The dog, wants to do stuff. And it's now when we're most frustrated with him, it's like, don't be frustrated. He's either been in a crate or has been pretty confined all day. So again, having that little quick...

burst of, all right, let's go do this for two or three minutes, five minutes. But then, you know, having that, just going to keep repeating it over and over is that having that control and having those, you know, level of obedience is so critical, because it's letting the dog's instinct take over is not what we need. We have to have him where he's going to listen because we're keeping him out of harm's way. We're keeping the baby out of harm's way. There's just always a situation where having, you never have too much control. You can be too controlling, you know, and heavy handed with the dog, but having good control is paramount.

Speaker 1 (35:20.75)

It's interesting because what I heard you say here for the last 32 minutes is very specifically focused on obedience, whether it's place, steadiness. Where my mind goes, which is incongruent, is, I want to see them use their nose. I want them to track cripples. I want them to go on point.

I think that's probably a pretty natural tendency for all of us as bird dog owners. We want to do the backyard stuff that replicates the sweet spots of hunting, right? But the reality is that they learn a ton about that using their nose when they're actually hunting. What we need to focus on... is truly that obedience, that control. So when we get into the field, their instincts, their natural abilities can take off within the boundaries of our own ability to control them. Is that an accurate representation of blending what you're trying to coach us to what our natural appetites are driving us towards?

Speaker 3 (36:45.006)

100%. No, you're exactly right that we do want to see that dog turn on their instincts in the right situation, using their nose, using their, you know, there's nothing cooler than watching a dog trail a rooster that's trying to double back and seeing that dog that, OK, I've had enough experience with this. I know what's up. My point is, if you don't have control at five feet, how do you expect to have control at 50 yards?

Speaker 2 (37:10.764)

Mm-mm.

Speaker 3 (37:14.606)

500 yards when we're letting those dogs roll in big short tail or big bobwhite country. So that's where I just go back to that if you don't have it close, you can't expect to have, because you're going to lose. Well, it's like the further away they get, it seems like that the percentage of control you have goes down. So if you are not dialed at five feet, you got no chance at 50 yards.

Speaker 1 (37:37.644)

Yeah, it's like your September sharp tail success when they're a mile away from you starts every single day at noon when you're running the five minute drill in the backyard. Right? It is because you just simply can't replicate how they're going to handle a covey of Sharpies on September 12th. But what you can replicate every single day is how they react with you and how much control you have.

with them as you're working in a backyard so you can keep them on task, prevent them from running into a road. It all comes back to that obedience and control. No matter how less sexy we think that is compared to what we want to watch the nose work, it's going to create the platform for you to jump off of when it comes to September and wild birds.

Speaker 3 (38:36.782)

Exactly right.

Speaker 2 (38:37.902)

So, Clay, you mentioned this earlier, but I wanted to dive into it a little bit more about getting your whole family involved. I think that's something, again, I mean, we're beating a dead horse here, but that goes back to obedience and consistency as well. But talk about getting not only your wife involved, but you have older kids. So talk about when you got them involved in that, in the training process as well, and sort of adding that aspect into your family.

Speaker 3 (39:06.882)

You bet. So now I am going to jump back to the puppy, the little eight week old we bring in. So much more is being done in those early, early, early days. So many more. I'm incorporating treats way more. And again, Doc, and he's a close friend, he's close proximity, we're also just good pals. I remember the first time I saw him.

He got a puppy to sit with a piece of kibble. And then as the puppy is sitting and look at him, he takes his hand and he takes his right hand and he moves it to his right. And that puppy starts falling at kibble. He got him to sit and he used his left hand. And I went, you're setting that dog up for hand signals. He just grinned. And I was like, he literally had a nine week old puppy that he was introducing hand signals. And so the drills that he sent home with me,

And I had to record these. I'll get to my conspiracy theory on why I had to record them later. Is that he had working at heel with a little piece of kibble, working down, working here. And then I would have Julie. I would run the drill, and then Julie would do the same drill. So LS was getting more reps. But also, she was learning what he needed, because at eight weeks, nine weeks old, he was pretty easy to handle.

65 pounds in seven years, if we didn't have control over him, mean, he'd be dragging me down the street, let alone, know, Julia or the girls if we had him on leash. So I think getting them involved so that they know what's expected. They know the commands to use. They know the hand signals or the motions that are expected. They know the level of performance that's okay, that's acceptable. The dogs getting extra reps.

the dog realizes, okay, I don't just have to listen to dad, I have to listen to everybody. And I'll tell you the fruits of the labor, oh, back. So the reason I think Dockett made me videotape him, he will not admit this, is that if I didn't videotape him, I could have lied to him that I ran that drill. I don't think he ever watched the videos. I think he just made sure I sent him a video as proof that I was actually running the drills. He's never given me confirmation on that. So maybe one day he'll fess up.

Speaker 3 (41:31.788)

biggest benefit that I've gotten out of involving Julie was that she had never hunted before, but now she's been a part of all these training sessions. She wants to see the fruits of our efforts out in the field. So she ends up on a duck blind watching the dog. ends up walking along the pheasant hunting. Well, pretty soon being a spectator is boring and she wants a gun and she wants, is into duck identification and

We run little drills, especially in the spring when they're all tricked out and plume driving around. Okay. What do you see over there? But so I've gotten the benefit of a hunting partner out of having a dog training partner way back in the day. So all of that. say she had never started hunting with me, which would be sad, but you know, it's plausible. I'm about to go on the road for five days. If when I left, she had a wild Tasmanian devil on her hands. It would be a miserable experience for her and the dog.

The dog would never leave the crate. She would, you know, just be mad at him every time she let him out to exercise after feeding. The relationship just wouldn't be there if she didn't know that she had control over him. She'd be scared to mess up my dog or to lose him while I was gone. Whereas it is my daughter's same way. We trust them. when they're home with the dogs, they know the commands. They know how to do them less formalized with them and running the drills, but

have them enforce commands, have showed them, here's how much leash pressure this situation calls for. Here's we use tone on the e-collar. And if not, on this dog, we start at a level two. You use momentary correction. So bringing them in and giving them the tools to be able to work the dog is critical if we're going to have the ability for the dog to work for everybody in the house.

Speaker 2 (43:26.03)

Hmm, yeah. What are some of the like, easiest tasks? I'm thinking about a little bit younger kids now, not as young as two probably, but sort of in between mine and yours. Easy tasks with your dog that you have to do every day that are one that you can hand over to a kid that helps introduce them to the idea of a relationship with a dog, whether it's letting them out or feeding or, you know, any of those.

Speaker 3 (43:55.224)

So supervised, starting off, steadiness, a kid is an amazing helper because the dog knows this kid doesn't know the rules. The dog knows that this, I can get away with with this kid, but you're behind the dog with an e-collar. And you know, you're, you're telling the kid, you know, you've given them the word for throw, which is a command that's never used in any of your drills. So there things you can say to the child and have them throwing dummies.

And you can really work on your steadiness there because the dog is going to break for that kid initially. So it gives you a chance. then as a guy, for I'm tired of hearing it by now, but the dog needs to sit for your kid. The dog needs to place for your kid, needs to walk it heel. Early on, and especially with younger, younger kids, you need to be there. again, I'm an advocate of e-collars.

you need to be there with the e-collar to be able to enforce that command with the lowest pressure required. But that's where the dog is then going to start to respect the child like, OK, he knows the rules. She knows the rules. I have to listen to the kid, not just to mom and dad. And it's just you're steadying up your dog and reinforcing those commands even better.

Speaker 1 (45:14.68)

I could think of two other examples because I think you're exactly right. You have the little kid that the dog is going to naturally want to test, but if you're there with the sport dog behind to reinforce it, like inviting a dog to go outside where the kid is holding the door, but the dog doesn't get to go outside until the invitation is made is another one.

Right? Like going into a kennel. Little kids would have a blast doing the back and forth in and out of the kennel sort of exercise. And another simple one is potty. Right? You go outside and have a kid reinforce, go potty. You know, very practical, very useful. You know, all of those things could be very helpful in a training situation, couldn't they?

Speaker 3 (46:14.638)

100%.

Speaker 2 (46:17.198)

Yeah, that's pretty valuable for me because we have so we taught Harry to say no, no, no. Like they have a my lab has a tendency because she's allowed to come over if he's got a stuffed animal in his hand and he's playing with it. That's hers for she thinks so. Right. So like she's going to take it out of his hand. And so we taught him to say no, no in a clear voice. But of course, like you said, she's not going to listen

to a two year old, she just takes it anyway. So I think the, need to be there standing behind him more often when that happens with that e-collar with the sport dog ready to go. And just to reinforce that. that's a great tip for for a sledge.

Speaker 3 (47:07.246)

You don't necessarily even have to be right behind him. There's value in you being out of the dog's sight.

Speaker 2 (47:15.308)

In Winnipeg.

Speaker 3 (47:17.336)

when he hears the no, but ignores it, give that correction. A dog's like, whoa, okay. Maybe the correction is coming from the kit. know, when I, when I didn't listen to the no, I got pressure instead of it being that I think what you're going to find otherwise is if you're standing behind Harry, the no no is going to work. But if you're not there, the no no is not going to have much meaning. So that's where I would kind of remove you as the cause of the pressure. and have it be the no-no is what caused the e-collar pressure.

Speaker 2 (47:48.846)

That's great. I'm gonna put that into practice today feeding is another one that I would just want to mention like that's something that we've worked into with Harry that that's a little chore of his now that's like the first thing that his first chore ever of his life is like he has to help feed the dogs and I put the food in the bowl and he takes it and sets it down and our you know and again he'll say the you know our release command to let to let the dogs eat after the bowl sits down but I have to like be behind him and say it too or otherwise the lab won't listen to him.

Speaker 3 (48:31.17)

I'm to be, I'm smelling a setup.

Speaker 2 (48:33.646)

Yeah, think it's so funny that in all of this, everything goes, it's just about obedience, man. Like it all really goes back to that, right?

Speaker 3 (48:51.95)

you know, I would love to have some sexy, amazing, you know, we've got this wild and crazy method, but it really does. I mean, it just comes back to if we can't do it at five feet, screwed at 50 yards and we're hopeless at 500. And in our dogs, we're to take a field we have to have control. And so just staying on it. And now you're describing a dog who is a happy loves their life like

Having some rules and commands is not like, it's not a robot. It's not a dog who just constantly tail tucked. We can have a happy good citizen. It doesn't have to be a beat down good citizen. that I don't want anybody to think that, like I said, pressure's okay, but having control, not being controlling is the critical part.

Speaker 2 (49:46.593)

Yeah, think that's such a great conversation to have and there's so many of us who deal with this on a daily basis and balancing dogs and children and lives and jobs and all that. Bob, is there anything else that we're missing here? I think this has been pretty valuable for me.

Speaker 1 (50:09.942)

Yeah. I guess we'll go to closing thoughts. As we do, I want to once again thank Clay for joining us, as well as SportDog brand for sponsoring this episode of On The Wing podcast. SportDog has been part of the upland tradition for more than 20 years, from preseason training to opening day. SportDog is committed to the hunters, the dogs, and the habitat that make it all possible. Every purchase you make with SportDog helps support conservation efforts nationwide. And you can learn more at SportDog.com. Key takeaways, I'll kick us off here. We've repeated it a number of times. But it's important to get through my thick head that whether you have a a youngster at home or it's the dead of winter and it's so important just to keep polishing up your dogs, engaging them in backyard drills based around obedience. That place command, the walk at heel, the inviting a pup out the door so they're not just rolling out the door before you do, just keeping that level of control is important to set them up for success in the field, but it's also important for safety. I think about a youngster near a stairway and a dog running rambunctiously, happy dog, not having any malicious intent, but if you don't have control, there's a lot of things that can go wrong and it all comes back to obedience. It may not be that sexy moment where the dog brings back a hundred yard winged rooster over a hill and dale in North Dakota. But if you can have some very quality control of your bird dog pup, no matter the breed, no matter the age, you are going to have a happier household with less and hopefully no incidents. So that to me is a good reminder to just keep polishing up obedience. you know, sometimes hard to get through my thick head that we don't have to train cripples in the backyard. We just have to train obedience. Clay, what's your... Any final thoughts you want to leave our listeners with?

Speaker 3 (52:51.736)

No, I just, appreciate the chance to have these conversations. I always learn some stuff and get some new perspective and got to meet Casey for the first time. So I appreciate that opportunity and hopefully I'll be at Pheasant Fest this next year and we get to meet in person there.

Speaker 2 (53:11.146)

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (53:12.438)

And if you would like to see Casey in action, he's been in two films with Dolph Lundgren. Not Eddie Rocky, he wasn't in Rocky. What were the name of the Dolph Lundgren films?

Speaker 2 (53:25.774)

God okay, so we're pigs and Operation Sea Wolf yeah, we're we're running out of movies

Speaker 1 (53:30.178)

War pigs?

Speaker 1 (53:39.214)

Two films with Tom Barringer too, not me. But yeah, Casey is a what's a Screen Actors Guild card carrying member.

Speaker 2 (53:51.832)

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:53.72)

impressive.

Speaker 1 (53:54.498)

Yeah. All right. Casey, thanks for bringing this concept to life. What's your key takeaway for it?

Speaker 2 (54:03.032)

Yeah, I think so this is and this is something that I've been working on for a while, but this conversation today helps drive that home is that there's you always there's always time to train, right? I think especially with young kids at home, you have a tendency to get in the mindset of like, I don't have time for that. And I think this conversation helps sort of drive home that you do. Whether it's

15 minutes in the yard or two minutes on your way from your office to, know, letting the dog out. There's always time to train. And we owe it to our dogs to continue doing that even through big life changers. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:46.732)

Super well said. We owe it. We owe it to our dogs, and we owe it to the little ones that we bring into our home, whether they're little humans or little puppies. We're making those decisions, so we owe it to them to put a safe and happy household together. Guys, thank you very much for being a part of this episode. was a really fun, enlightening conversation.

Even without kids, know, we all have brothers and sisters and cousins that bring little ones home into the family and even just being cognizant of how the interaction happens between your bird dog and little ones is an important part of the conversation. So, for Perina Pro Plan, for Sport Dog, thank you very much. For Clay and for Casey.

I'm Bob St. Pierre reminding you to always follow the dog. Something good will rise. Thanks for listening, folks.